How to find aquacultured dwarf angelfish

[SayrinaDVM]

Any advice or insight on how best to obtain an aquacultured dwarf angelfish?

The tank is a 32-gallon BioCube, so we’re only considering species that max out around 3”, which I think leaves just the Flameback (Centropyge acanthops) and the Cherub (C. argi).

Unfortunately, they don’t seem to be available anywhere: on Biota, the Flameback is sold out (and I don’t see the Cherub at all), and on all the ORA “middlemen” sites I’ve looked at (e.g., Algae Barn, SWA, OGA), they’re out of stock too.

Since it seems like I’ll have to wait anyway, I figured I’d take this opportunity to ask for your thoughts on topics ranging from the Flameback vs. the Cherub (when no coral is concerned) to your experiences with different aquaculture companies and/or the “middlemen” websites they use. For example:

• Would you personally recommend waiting for the Flameback to become available again from Biota and just ordering directly from them?
• Have you had a better experience with purchasing ORA fish from some “middlemen” websites compared to others?
• Any thoughts on other aquaculture companies, such as Proaquatix or Quality Marine? QM in particular seemed to have a large variety of aquacultured angelfish species. (They don’t sell directly to hobbyists, but I can ask our LFS if they seem good.)

Any and all insights welcome. Thanks in advance!

 

[John Neuzil]

Biota is the only place I ever see them.

 

[Cheese Griller]

I would wait for biota flamebacks to come available and order directly from them. They're the only source I know of that offers them on a commercial scale. I haven't seen ORA cherubs available in years, so I would say you're most likely going to end up with a flameback.

I've had both species, and I personally don't have a preference. Cherubs seem easier to pair, but that would be out of the question in your biocube.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Personally, I'd order from somewhere I could be reasonably assured that the CB stock wasn't mixed with (i.e. shared water with) WC stock. Whether that's the case with QM, I would wonder.

At least some ORA middlemen simply take orders to be drop shipped from ORA, so probably best to choose whichever of those you prefer for other reasons.

 

[SayrinaDVM]

Personally, I'd order from somewhere I could be reasonably assured that the CB stock wasn't mixed with (i.e. shared water with) WC stock. Whether that's the case with QM, I would wonder.

At least some ORA middlemen simply take orders to be drop shipped from ORA, so probably best to choose whichever of those you prefer for other reasons.

Yeah, whether or not CB livestock has contact with anything WC was my primary concern, and I’m not confident in my ability to gauge the trustworthiness of a website (I’ve never ordered livestock online before).

I found an Instagram post from ORA in July 2024 that lists the following four companies as their Drop Ship Partners: Algae Barn, Ocean’s Garden, Aquarium Specialty, and SWA. I was under the impression that BRS also drop ships from ORA, though, so I’m probably missing others?

 

[Malum Argenteum]

I've ordered ORA through SWA, and their website specifically states that ORA stuff ships from ORA. These animals shipped FedEx Priority Overnight from Fort Pierce, FL (so, directly from ORA).

BRS states that their "Fish and Invertebrates from ORA are shipped via UPS Next Day Air." That suggests they don't ship directly from ORA, and the absence of BRS's inclusion in the ORA partners list you provided also supports this suspicion.

Short story: I've kept a handful of dragonettes (S. splendidus and S. picturatus) over the years. I also was in charge of getting WC ones to eat frozen during my short stint as an LFS worker. Out of all the ones that were in reasonably decent shape (sometimes they hit the retailer basically starved to death), the only one I ever experienced not eat one single thing was an ORA one I bought from an LFS in 2011. I had a not-positive email correspondence with ORA about it at that time. That's a long time ago, of course. There's some current suggestions floating around that ORA livestock is a little lower quality than Biota, but based on my very small recent sample size from each I've been happy with both.

Given the very little bit of first hand experience I have with the two companies, I'd personally lean toward Biota -- my yellow tang and Buan's goby came direct from Biota, and that was all fabulous -- but I would purchase from ORA as well (I got a couple clowns and some snails recently, and they're good).

A little further afield: I keep other animals in boxes (reptiles and amphibians), and often enough I wait for over a year to find some species of them that I'm looking for. These sorts of hobbies are well worth playing the long game. :)

 

[SayrinaDVM]

I've ordered ORA through SWA, and their website specifically states that ORA stuff ships from ORA. These animals shipped FedEx Priority Overnight from Fort Pierce, FL (so, directly from ORA).

BRS states that their "Fish and Invertebrates from ORA are shipped via UPS Next Day Air." That suggests they don't ship directly from ORA, and the absence of BRS's inclusion in the ORA partners list you provided also supports this suspicion.

Short story: I've kept a handful of dragonettes (S. splendidus and S. picturatus) over the years. I also was in charge of getting WC ones to eat frozen during my short stint as an LFS worker. Out of all the ones that were in reasonably decent shape (sometimes they hit the retailer basically starved to death), the only one I ever experienced not eat one single thing was an ORA one I bought from an LFS in 2011. I had a not-positive email correspondence with ORA about it at that time. That's a long time ago, of course. There's some current suggestions floating around that ORA livestock is a little lower quality than Biota, but based on my very small recent sample size from each I've been happy with both.

Given the very little bit of first hand experience I have with the two companies, I'd personally lean toward Biota -- my yellow tang and Buan's goby came direct from Biota, and that was all fabulous -- but I would purchase from ORA as well (I got a couple clowns and some snails recently, and they're good).

A little further afield: I keep other animals in boxes (reptiles and amphibians), and often enough I wait for over a year to find some species of them that I'm looking for. These sorts of hobbies are well worth playing the long game. :)

Thank you so much for your super helpful comment! A new LFS just opened near us, so we decided to ask the owner to order a Green Mandarin, a Court Jester Goby, and a Buan’s Goby from Biota for us.

On a bit of a tangent, we’ve never had a Buan’s Goby before, so we’re really excited! If you have any words of wisdom and/or stories to share, we’d love to hear them :)

 

[Malum Argenteum]

On a bit of a tangent, we’ve never had a Buan’s Goby before, so we’re really excited! If you have any words of wisdom and/or stories to share, we’d love to hear them :)

Y'know those fish that are just...fish? That's a Buan's goby -- mine, anyway. Swims around, might sift a little sand but probably not, doesn't mess with anyone and always smiles at the other fish when they swim by. Really a neutral critter, and I mean that in a good way. That's the sort of fish I tend to keep lately, since there's enough drama in the world without pushing the limits by keeping some fish that has something to prove. :)

Mine's in a fairly peaceful 90g, for reference.

 

[littlefoxx]

Yeah, whether or not CB livestock has contact with anything WC was my primary concern, and I’m not confident in my ability to gauge the trustworthiness of a website (I’ve never ordered livestock online before).

I found an Instagram post from ORA in July 2024 that lists the following four companies as their Drop Ship Partners: Algae Barn, Ocean’s Garden, Aquarium Specialty, and SWA. I was under the impression that BRS also drop ships from ORA, though, so I’m probably missing others?

Are you not wanting wild caught at all then?

 

[JumboShrimp]

My Cherub is a constant swimmer, and lightning fast. I have never owned a Flameback, so I don't know whether they have the same behavior; but given that a BioCube isn't particularly wide in terms of swimming length, the Cherub might not be the best choice, out of the two. Best wishes!

 

[SayrinaDVM]

Yeah, whether or not CB livestock has contact with anything WC was my primary concern, and I’m not confident in my ability to gauge the trustworthiness of a website (I’ve never ordered livestock online before).

I found an Instagram post from ORA in July 2024 that lists the following four companies as their Drop Ship Partners: Algae Barn, Ocean’s Garden, Aquarium Specialty, and SWA. I was under the impression that BRS also drop ships from ORA, though, so I’m probably missing others?

Are you not wanting wild caught at all then?

We’ve gotten wild-caught fish from our LFS before, so we’re not necessarily against it, but if the species has been successfully aquacultured, my husband and I just generally feel better about getting aquacultured livestock.

 

[SayrinaDVM]

On a bit of a tangent, we’ve never had a Buan’s Goby before, so we’re really excited! If you have any words of wisdom and/or stories to share, we’d love to hear them :)

Y'know those fish that are just...fish? That's a Buan's goby -- mine, anyway. Swims around, might sift a little sand but probably not, doesn't mess with anyone and always smiles at the other fish when they swim by. Really a neutral critter, and I mean that in a good way. That's the sort of fish I tend to keep lately, since there's enough drama in the world without pushing the limits by keeping some fish that has something to prove. :)

Mine's in a fairly peaceful 90g, for reference.

Your description made me smile :) We like having a peaceful tank, and it sounds like the Buan’s Goby will fit right in. Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions!

 

[GoAskAlice]

I think Biota currently has Cherub, BiColor, and Lemonpeel available. I have a Potters Angel from them. One of my favorite fish. Just be aware the Biota fish are very small when you get them. And as others have noted, dwarf angels are very active, so not sure about one in a 32 g cube.

 

[SayrinaDVM]

I think Biota currently has Cherub, BiColor, and Lemonpeel available. I have a Potters Angel from them. One of my favorite fish. Just be aware the Biota fish are very small when you get them. And as others have noted, dwarf angels are very active, so not sure about one in a 32 g cube.

Thanks! We’ve been mulling over the suitability of a dwarf angelfish for the BioCube, because we know 32 gal is on the small side for a super active fish, even one that maxes out at ~ 3”. I appreciate the note about their initial size too; we’ll definitely use acclimation boxes so we can keep an eye on them :)

 

[Biota_Marine Verified Sponsor]

I would wait for biota flamebacks to come available and order directly from them. They're the only source I know of that offers them on a commercial scale. I haven't seen ORA cherubs available in years, so I would say you're most likely going to end up with a flameback.

I've had both species, and I personally don't have a preference. Cherubs seem easier to pair, but that would be out of the question in your biocube.

Unfortunately, I'm going to be out of the flamebacks for a minute, we moved them around a bit and they haven't started spawning again yet. I have some tiny lemonpeels atm but some of our other dwarf angelfish might get a bit big for that tank long term

 

[littlefoxx]

We’ve gotten wild-caught fish from our LFS before, so we’re not necessarily against it, but if the species has been successfully aquacultured, my husband and I just generally feel better about getting aquacultured livestock.

Fair enough!

 

[Cheese Griller]

B

Unfortunately, I'm going to be out of the flamebacks for a minute, we moved them around a bit and they haven't started spawning again yet. I have some tiny lemonpeels atm but some of our other dwarf angelfish might get a bit big for that tank long term

Bummer!! Are there any plans for you guys to eventually start producing cherubs as well?

 

[Oldsman]

FWIW we had a 32 biicube for 18 months and kept a beautiful coral beauty w 2 clowns, and red firefish. The most pleasant and enjoyable fish we had. Always cruising thru rockwork, and always ate like a pig.