How to get from idea to prototype?

[Formulator]

So I have an idea and the concept is something that already exists for a different application at much larger scale. So I basically have proof of concept and just need a prototype built. There are somewhat complex mechanics and electronics involved, but I really think it could be game changing in the hobby. I don’t have the skills or expertise to build a working prototype. What are the next steps? I don’t even know where to start.

Most of my “million dollar inventions” end up already being in production, but I really think I’m the first to think of this one. Sorry I don’t want to get any more specific because I really am convinced this thing is going to be a disruptive innovation and don’t want to risk someone else running away with it…

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

What are the next steps? I don’t even know where to start.

If it already exists at a larger scale, figure out how exactly to scale it down (with at least a rudimentary blueprint if possible), then either build it yourself (this would involve learning the stuff you need to know to build it - figuring out what you need to learn is the first step and typically the hardest due to technical terminology involved/needing to figure out the names of specific parts needed) or find some competent individual/company to build it for you.

 

[Formulator]

If it already exists at a larger scale, figure out how exactly to scale it down (with at least a rudimentary blueprint if possible), then either build it yourself (this would involve learning the stuff you need to know to build it - figuring out what you need to learn is the first step and typically the hardest due to technical terminology involved/needing to figure out the names of specific parts needed) or find some competent individual/company to build it for you.

How does one get ahold of the right company to build something? Take a simple example - lets pretend I had a revolutionary new design for a drill. Its not like I as an individual with a blueprint can just get on the phone with Milwaukee Tools and make a deal with them. Or can I?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

How does one get ahold of the right company to build something? Take a simple example - lets pretend I had a revolutionary new design for a drill. Its not like I as an individual with a blueprint can just get on the phone with Milwaukee Tools and make a deal with them. Or can I?

To my knowledge, unless you have major connections to reach out with, you just contact a prototyping company that can handle your needs (different prototyping companies help build different things; if it involves a lot of complex mechanics and electronics, then you'd want to find a company that specializes in those sorts of things).

 

[theatrus]

Ideas, in general, are worthless. Make reality of the idea is where the hard work is - can the process be scaled down? Is there a market? How do you convince people they need it?

There are many companies which will take a concept through stages of reality for you. Look for design services. Expect to pay as you’re paying both staff time plus overhead.

 

[Formulator]

Ideas, in general, are worthless. Make reality of the idea is where the hard work is - can the process be scaled down? Is there a market? How do you convince people they need it?

There are many companies which will take a concept through stages of reality for you. Look for design services. Expect to pay as you’re paying both staff time plus overhead.

I think I can safely share that its an automated frozen food feeder. But in a way nobody has thought to do it before. Really outside the box, coming in from a whole different angle than the countless DIY versions I’ve seen, but so obvious once you see it (hopefully someday soon). I know people want this and I know it can be made affordable. I’m confident I could get BRS and the like to stock them. I just need to get a prototype and a patent because as soon as I share it, someone with more skills than I do will have made one.

 

[VintageReefer]

I think I can safely share that its an automated frozen food feeder. But in a way nobody has thought to do it before. Really outside the box, coming in from a whole different angle than the countless DIY versions I’ve seen, but so obvious once you see it (hopefully someday soon). I know people want this and I know it can be made affordable. I’m confident I could get BRS and the like to stock them. I just need to get a prototype and a patent because as soon as I share it, someone with more skills than I do will have made one.

Sketch it. Write a detailed description and patent it asap. Before you talk to companies / people to make it. This way they can’t steal the idea

 

[VintageReefer]

You get a patent lawyer they provide guidance, paperwork, forms etc they make sure you do everything right and legally so you don’t get screwed down the line on a technicality or mistake

 

[theatrus]

You get a patent lawyer they provide guidance, paperwork, forms etc they make sure you do everything right and legally so you don’t get screwed down the line on a technicality or mistake

Also ask yourself, is it worth it? Who are you defending against? Filing patents is one cost, litigating patents is another. And a patent is worthless if there is no way you can defend it.

Patents are expensive.

And that patent has zero value when the clones are inevitably on AliExpress.

Instead of sinking $20k+ into a competent patent attorney, validate the idea first. Get to a prototype stage.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I think I can safely share that its an automated frozen food feeder. But in a way nobody has thought to do it before. Really outside the box, coming in from a whole different angle than the countless DIY versions I’ve seen, but so obvious once you see it (hopefully someday soon). I know people want this and I know it can be made affordable. I’m confident I could get BRS and the like to stock them. I just need to get a prototype and a patent because as soon as I share it, someone with more skills than I do will have made one.

This is something that I know quite a bit about as I've been working on a frozen feeder since 2015. I even have a patent pending on my current iteration. One thing that I learned in the patent arena is that there are many patents already secured based around this concept, and I wouldn't be surprised that someone holds a patent on a variation of your idea. This has forced me to make many iterations. Part of the reason why you see Ind change their design of the frozen feeder so many times since the start up.

I can say that there are quite a bit of people working on this concept and it will be hard to move into the space. But if your idea is unique, then it's possible that you can dominate as long as you can take your concept and make it a reality.

My advice would be to draw up detailed plans of your idea, take it to a patent lawyer and spend some money to do a search on what's already out there and see if your idea is unique. Even if it's not unique, you'll at least know where your guardrails are and then you can hire some engineers to work within those boundaries to come up with something that might dominate market share.

You are at a disadvantage because you're behind the curve, many great minds are already working on marketing this product and we are going to start seeing them pop up soon.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Also ask yourself, is it worth it? Who are you defending against? Filing patents is one cost, litigating patents is another. And a patent is worthless if there is no way you can defend it.

Patents are expensive.

And that patent has zero value when the clones are inevitably on AliExpress.

Instead of sinking $20k+ into a competent patent attorney, validate the idea first. Get to a prototype stage.

Going to add to this:

I hate to be that guy... but this hobby is littered with the dead souls of good ideas and bad business plans and miscalculations about market size and demand.

This is a TINY TINY MARKET. If you don't patent, you have no rights. If you do patent you will go broke defending and those who break you know this...

Prototypes - same thing. Be careful who you recruit, as they may just decide if the product has value, to move forward without out. NDA, contract or not.

See Vertex Cerbera for a recent example of this in this hobby .There are plenty more.

Now ask yourself another question. If it took inD almost 5 years and a lickstarter to get a product ALMOST ready to ship... and that product is $450 and this market is TINY. How many can they sell and how many do they have to sell to make it worthwhile ,let alone lose a fortune? Is there enough room for them to even make it, let alone TWO OF YOU? What do you do when your fav Chinese manufacturer decides to sell them for $200 and doesn't care about your patent (if you got one)?

Feeders: I am not saying that you don't have a novel idea (I don't know what it is) but we (as a community) have talked about and tried all kinds of design.

Cubes on a conveyor belt that drop into the dispenser... plop plop.

Frozen bar of food where the end gets ground or shaved off into the dispenser.

XY table with an aperature and pusher solenoid that plops cubes out of standard cube trays into the dispenser.

The actual dispenser mechanism being pumps of various types, chutes, etc.

So - high tech complex mechanisms need to be manufactured. The expense is likely to outweigh the investment and market value.

On the other hand if you can simplify your design to mostly 3D printed parts and off the shelf electronics and electromechanical parts, then there is a possible side business or small fabrication business.

BUT!!!! For every "Durable good" item you sell, you are on the hook for warranty and support. So you sell a $500 feeder. You have to help people set it up, troubleshoot, provide support and parts, etc. and all of that cuts into or surpasses the profit you made selling it in the first place. This is before somebody sues you for whatever reason.

So - better have a darn good business plan and/or exit strategy if you really want to manufacture a complex durable good for this (or any hobby). Selling frag racks? That's a whole different calculus with far less to worry about.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Cubes on a conveyor belt that drop into the dispenser... plop plop.

Wait a minute, you forgot about auger... plop plop
April 2015:

 

[Reign1]

The last few responses give great advice . Seek out a patent atty. do some research and then see how much $ you would be able to invest just to get some prototypes . I had a friend that had a simple medical supply product and patent and I witnessed him doing the finishes on product when they came back from china just to be able to sell them .
That is alot of time and $ you will have to be prepared to be sunk into idea . I cannot imagine the $$ to be spent on a complex product ..

 

[BeanAnimal]

Wait a minute, you forgot about auger... plop plop
April 2015:

Yep - the easiest design being to just repurpose an small auger icemaker mechanism with an electric eye to stop the auger at a single cube. You build it into a tiny freezer (conventional or peltier) and use a chute to deliver to the feeding ring. A DIY mechanism is not complicated either but I still don't see a path to a good business model.

Did you ever finish it?

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Did you ever finish it?

That design? No. I know where the prototype sits in my shop and I bring it out to show off every now and then. That was a simply relay that initiated with a push of a button and ended when the auger came around and opened the circuit. Never got any further with it except to attach peltiers to a heat sink to keep the cubes frozen.

 

[Formulator]

Yep - the easiest design being to just repurpose an small auger icemaker mechanism with an electric eye to stop the auger at a single cube. You build it into a tiny freezer (conventional or peltier) and use a chute to deliver to the feeding ring. A DIY mechanism is not complicated either but I still don't see a path to a good business model.

Did you ever finish it?

Well, unfortunately it appears my idea has already been made and probably the closest to commercialization. I was imagining a miniature slushy machine that keeps the food in a frozen slurry rather than solid cubes. As a fluid it would then be easy to meter the dosing and thawing would be almost instantaneous upon hitting the water. This is the same concept behind the inD aquatics machine that appears to be close to market: https://www.indaquatics.com/products/af4

 

[BeanAnimal]

Most of the viable designs are along those lines (cold or semi-frozen) where the food is 30F or less for stability and ease of metering.

The inD design is one solution, but IMHO is more complicated than it needs to be. I worked on several viable designs over the last 2 decades, but the market is too small to make it worth the trouble without a proprietary consumables to generate RMR - and who wants to manufacture and ship a product that needs to stay cold and can spoil?

I am not willing to share my designs, but one day if I find the time and energy I will build the simplest one. I have a plank feeder that works amazingly and toss in a frozen cube here and there when I remember.

 

[theatrus]

Well, unfortunately it appears my idea has already been made and probably the closest to commercialization. I was imagining a miniature slushy machine that keeps the food in a frozen slurry rather than solid cubes. As a fluid it would then be easy to meter the dosing and thawing would be almost instantaneous upon hitting the water. This is the same concept behind the inD aquatics machine that appears to be close to market: https://www.indaquatics.com/products/af4

And thats the market research phase :)

The question is - do you have something novel which would make the fundamentals better?

I do worry about spoilage and smell, even if you did drop the freezing point a bit with using brine. Also peltier coolers are such a waste of energy.

 

[Formulator]

proprietary consumables to generate RMR - and who wants to manufacture and ship a product that needs to stay cold and can spoil?

This is literally my day job. Sensitive biologic drugs like gene therapy and the covid vaccine which ship at -80C and have only hours to a few days of room temp stability. I have more to think about…

 

[BeanAnimal]

I did not design around peltier - COP of maybe .3 or worse. Whereas, a phase change device (compressor) would have a COP of around 3. So operating cost is going to be 10X as much.

Let's say the phase change based chiller uses 10kW per month. That is maybe $2.00 or $36 per year. The peltier based device would cost $360 per year in electricity.

The tradeoff, cheaper to produce and more compact but expensive to run and a lot of heat.