How to proceed

[ErikVR]

Hi all,

My Red Sea Reefer XXL 625 G2 has been up and running for about 10 months now and I'm not sure how to continue from here. I feel like it has been plagued with ich issues. After the fishless cycle went as planned, I introduced a couple of clowns, a royal gramma and a lawnmower blenny. Everything went fine for a month. So I added some more small fish. A few snails. 2 months later everything was still fine.

Then I introduced a powder brown and a blue tang. Not even a week later, the PB got a bad ich infection that spread to the blue as well. I resorted to hyposalinity to get rid of the ich. Everything went well and 6 weeks later I raised the salinity again (6 weeks after the last visible signs of ich). All fish were doing well but I added a uv sterilizer with the right flow to combat ich.

The tank ran fine for many months but it was very empty. So I bought a coral beauty and a white tail bristletooth tang.
Both fish were quarantined in separate systems. My fish store (and comments on this forum) told me that dwarf angels do not tolerate copper treatment. So the tang got the fill quarantine treatment with copper and praziquantel. The angel only received praziquantel and two weeks of additional observation.

After 6 weeks of quarantine, the fish were introduced to the main tank. It didn't take more than 2 days for the angel to get infected and a few days later the white tail bristletooth was covered in ich. The blue tang also got a few spots and started rubbing. The powder brown also developed spots.

So I went into hyposalinity again as soon as spots appeared on both the angel and the bristletooth but it was too late.
The bristletooth died after a week of hypo. Now even the powder brown is dead...

My problem is that I'm losing all confidence in myself and my tank.
I want a full reef tank with corals but because of all these issues, I haven't even considered starting with corals.

Do I give up and sell all the equipment?
Do I convert the system to freshwater and go back to african cichlids (which I love and kept very successfully for 10 years).
Do I tear down the whole system and sterilize everything and start over?
Do I power through the hypo and HOPE that it will be better from now on?

My concern is that I'll be stuck in the nasty ich cycle after added new fish...
Will I be flushing thousands of euros down the toilet over the next years if I continue like this?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi all,

My Red Sea Reefer XXL 625 G2 has been up and running for about 10 months now and I'm not sure how to continue from here. I feel like it has been plagued with ich issues. After the fishless cycle went as planned, I introduced a couple of clowns, a royal gramma and a lawnmower blenny. Everything went fine for a month. So I added some more small fish. A few snails. 2 months later everything was still fine.

Then I introduced a powder brown and a blue tang. Not even a week later, the PB got a bad ich infection that spread to the blue as well. I resorted to hyposalinity to get rid of the ich. Everything went well and 6 weeks later I raised the salinity again (6 weeks after the last visible signs of ich). All fish were doing well but I added a uv sterilizer with the right flow to combat ich.

The tank ran fine for many months but it was very empty. So I bought a coral beauty and a white tail bristletooth tang.
Both fish were quarantined in separate systems. My fish store (and comments on this forum) told me that dwarf angels do not tolerate copper treatment. So the tang got the fill quarantine treatment with copper and praziquantel. The angel only received praziquantel and two weeks of additional observation.

After 6 weeks of quarantine, the fish were introduced to the main tank. It didn't take more than 2 days for the angel to get infected and a few days later the white tail bristletooth was covered in ich. The blue tang also got a few spots and started rubbing. The powder brown also developed spots.

So I went into hyposalinity again as soon as spots appeared on both the angel and the bristletooth but it was too late.
The bristletooth died after a week of hypo. Now even the powder brown is dead...

My problem is that I'm losing all confidence in myself and my tank.
I want a full reef tank with corals but because of all these issues, I haven't even considered starting with corals.

Do I give up and sell all the equipment?
Do I convert the system to freshwater and go back to african cichlids (which I love and kept very successfully for 10 years).
Do I tear down the whole system and sterilize everything and start over?
Do I power through the hypo and HOPE that it will be better from now on?

My concern is that I'll be stuck in the nasty ich cycle after added new fish...
Will I be flushing thousands of euros down the toilet over the next years if I continue like this?

Sorry to hear all that.

There may be multiple issues going on, as fish should not die from ich if hyposalinity is begun soon enough.

While no quarantine is 100% effective, leaving openings (like the angel not getting copper) increases the likelihood that ich will show back up. Centropyge angels do not tolerate ionic copper well, but coppersafe is fine with them (but you cannot get that in the EU, correct?)

There is perhaps another option - develop the tank with corals and invertebrates as the primary inhabitants. Then, only acquire a few, hardy fish like dottybacks, etc. that have gone through a full copper quarantine.

Jay

 

[ErikVR]

Hi Jay,

Appreciated once again.

I understand the corals and hardy fish route would be safer. But to me, beautiful fish are the reason I switched to saltwater. So when I saw that beautiful white tail and powder brown swim around, that was my reason for getting this tank. I see so many people who keep them successfully so I am really frustrated that I can't make it work.

What puzzles me is how the fish get sick in the first place. They have so many hiding places. They get the best food on a schedule. I religiously test my water parameters. Everything is perfect and as stable as can be. I run the best equipment and monitoring tools. So why are they still getting sick?

Is there any way for ich to remain in the tank after 40+ days of hyposalinity and maybe even a 3 month fishless period? My low confidence is nagging me to do a complete reset and sterilization. But if I can't identify my mistakes, it will probably end the same way.

We cannot get coppersafe here. That is correct. All I've been able to find is colombo cobrasal.
I'd be in the market for this:
www.amazon.com/Fritz-Aquatics-Mardel-Copper-1-Gallon/dp/B00OTH69LO
But it shows as unavailable. Don't know if they are out or if its because they wont ship to the EU.

I see that this will ship:
www.amazon.com/Seachem-67105650-Cupramine-Copper-100ml/dp/B00025K0QC
If I'm correct, that's not the desired form of copper, right?

 

[wlmalek]

Hi all,

My Red Sea Reefer XXL 625 G2 has been up and running for about 10 months now and I'm not sure how to continue from here. I feel like it has been plagued with ich issues. After the fishless cycle went as planned, I introduced a couple of clowns, a royal gramma and a lawnmower blenny. Everything went fine for a month. So I added some more small fish. A few snails. 2 months later everything was still fine.

Then I introduced a powder brown and a blue tang. Not even a week later, the PB got a bad ich infection that spread to the blue as well. I resorted to hyposalinity to get rid of the ich. Everything went well and 6 weeks later I raised the salinity again (6 weeks after the last visible signs of ich). All fish were doing well but I added a uv sterilizer with the right flow to combat ich.

The tank ran fine for many months but it was very empty. So I bought a coral beauty and a white tail bristletooth tang.
Both fish were quarantined in separate systems. My fish store (and comments on this forum) told me that dwarf angels do not tolerate copper treatment. So the tang got the fill quarantine treatment with copper and praziquantel. The angel only received praziquantel and two weeks of additional observation.

After 6 weeks of quarantine, the fish were introduced to the main tank. It didn't take more than 2 days for the angel to get infected and a few days later the white tail bristletooth was covered in ich. The blue tang also got a few spots and started rubbing. The powder brown also developed spots.

So I went into hyposalinity again as soon as spots appeared on both the angel and the bristletooth but it was too late.
The bristletooth died after a week of hypo. Now even the powder brown is dead...

My problem is that I'm losing all confidence in myself and my tank.
I want a full reef tank with corals but because of all these issues, I haven't even considered starting with corals.

Do I give up and sell all the equipment?
Do I convert the system to freshwater and go back to african cichlids (which I love and kept very successfully for 10 years).
Do I tear down the whole system and sterilize everything and start over?
Do I power through the hypo and HOPE that it will be better from now on?

My concern is that I'll be stuck in the nasty ich cycle after added new fish...
Will I be flushing thousands of euros down the toilet over the next years if I continue like this?

How many fish are there right now? Are you sure it’s ich?
is there any chance you can set up a hospital tank to treat everyone with copper? And let the DT fish less to starve out the ich.

you can start adding corals and invertebrates and enjoy your tank While all fish at QT. But, even coral and inverts can carry fish disease (tomont stage). Although it’s not that common but its possible.

 

[ErikVR]

How many fish are there right now? Are you sure it’s ich?
is there any chance you can set up a hospital tank to treat everyone with copper? And let the DT fish less to starve out the ich.

you can start adding corals and invertebrates and enjoy your tank While all fish at QT. But, even coral and inverts can carry fish disease (tomont stage). Although it’s not that common but its possible.

I'm pretty sure it's ich, and the experts on here have confirmed that before.

I do have the option to pull all fish out and move them to my quarantine rack. One QT is already housing a flame angel that had neobenedenia and then a few weeks later had ich. He hasn't even left the quarantine room since I brought him home and I'm very sure I don't contaminate from quarantine to display. I use all different cups/nets/buckets/etc for the quarantine room.

I did set up a rack with two 120 liter quarantine tanks. One for fish and one for corals.
I planned to quarantine all new corals for a few months to prevent fish diseases from transferring with corals.
That stage still hasn't been reached because my main tank has been so problematic.

 

[wlmalek]

I'm pretty sure it's ich, and the experts on here have confirmed that before.

I do have the option to pull all fish out and move them to my quarantine rack. One QT is already housing a flame angel that had neobenedenia and then a few weeks later had ich. He hasn't even left the quarantine room since I brought him home and I'm very sure I don't contaminate from quarantine to display. I use all different cups/nets/buckets/etc for the quarantine room.

I did set up a rack with two 120 liter quarantine tanks. One for fish and one for corals.
I planned to quarantine all new corals for a few months to prevent fish diseases from transferring with corals.
That stage still hasn't been reached because my main tank has been so problematic.

Great. just pull them out and qt them with copper it’s much easier to maintain than hyposalinity . Chelated copper ex. (copper power and fritz copper safe) are gentler than ionic copper.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay,

Appreciated once again.

I understand the corals and hardy fish route would be safer. But to me, beautiful fish are the reason I switched to saltwater. So when I saw that beautiful white tail and powder brown swim around, that was my reason for getting this tank. I see so many people who keep them successfully so I am really frustrated that I can't make it work.

What puzzles me is how the fish get sick in the first place. They have so many hiding places. They get the best food on a schedule. I religiously test my water parameters. Everything is perfect and as stable as can be. I run the best equipment and monitoring tools. So why are they still getting sick?

Is there any way for ich to remain in the tank after 40+ days of hyposalinity and maybe even a 3 month fishless period? My low confidence is nagging me to do a complete reset and sterilization. But if I can't identify my mistakes, it will probably end the same way.

We cannot get coppersafe here. That is correct. All I've been able to find is colombo cobrasal.
I'd be in the market for this:
www.amazon.com/Fritz-Aquatics-Mardel-Copper-1-Gallon/dp/B00OTH69LO
But it shows as unavailable. Don't know if they are out or if its because they wont ship to the EU.

I see that this will ship:
www.amazon.com/Seachem-67105650-Cupramine-Copper-100ml/dp/B00025K0QC
If I'm correct, that's not the desired form of copper, right?

Cupramine is a bit harsher than coppersafe, but is still a good product if dosed carefully.

Fish get sick because they are exposed to infectious agents. People think, "if I give them a good environment" they won't get sick. That simply isn't true - I tell people it's like this: let's say you have a dog, in perfect health and fed the very best food. You take it for a walk in a field and it comes back with ticks. The environment you gave it, not matter how good, did not protect it when it was exposed to ticks. Fish parasites are exactly the same.....

Jay