How to remove LaCl3 from filter socks?

[Miami Reef]

I have these thick 1 micron socks and I can’t flip them inside out.

I wash all my socks in the washing machine and I use bleach. Do you think this will be fine in removing the percipients?

 

[blaxsun]

I use OxiClean, but I pre-soak mine for 24 hours before going into the wash. And I run them through two heavy sanitize cycles.

 

[Miami Reef]

Thanks.

Why is lanthanum chloride so underrated? I don’t see any mention of it in @Randy Holmes-Farley ’s phosphate article.

I did a little experiment by mixing brightwell neophos and brightwell phosphate E (phosphates and lanthanum chloride, respectively). It instantly caused a while cloud percipient which was very fine. It seems correct that using a small micron sock is ideal.

I’m dealing with rocks that probably have about 1ppm phosphates, and using lanthanum chloride seems much quicker, cheaper. I think the trying to remove the precipitation is the most annoying part.

Or should I just use GFO since it’s more proven and used in the industry?

 

[blaxsun]

I use Nyos Phosi-Ex, as the pellets are a lot larger and don't end up accumulating in your sump the way Rowaphos does.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have these thick 1 micron socks and I can’t flip them inside out.

I wash all my socks in the washing machine and I use bleach. Do you think this will be fine in removing the percipients?

Just to be clear about the thread title, there's no lanthanum chloride in the filter sock. Any lanthanum products there are lanthanum phosphate and lanthanum carbonate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks.

Why is lanthanum chloride so underrated? I don’t see any mention of it in @Randy Holmes-Farley ’s phosphate article.

I did a little experiment by mixing brightwell neophos and brightwell phosphate E (phosphates and lanthanum chloride, respectively). It instantly caused a while cloud percipient which was very fine. It seems correct that using a small micron sock is ideal.

I’m dealing with rocks that probably have about 1ppm phosphates, and using lanthanum chloride seems much quicker, cheaper. I think the trying to remove the precipitation is the most annoying part.

Or should I just use GFO since it’s more proven and used in the industry?

Phosphate in the Reef Aquarium

The phosphorus atom is one of living matter's basic building blocks. It is present in every living creature and in every reef aquarium's water. Unfortunately, it is often present in excess in reef aquaria, and that excess has the potential to cause at least two substantial problems for...

www.reefedition.com

Soluble Metals to Bind Phosphate

There are several approaches that add soluble metals to bind and precipitate phosphate. The most popular involves adding lanthanum, which precipitates as lanthanum phosphate and/or lanthanum carbonate (which itself may contain some lanthanum phosphate). The lanthanum approach is widely used in the pool industry to reduce phosphate, and seems to often work well in aquaria. It is also very inexpensive, using products such as Seaklear (make sure it is a pure lanthanum version as mixtures with other metals also exist). Note that this method reduces alkalinity, as removing carbonate and phosphate as a lanthanum precipitate will reduce alkalinity.

One way to use it is to drip is slowly just upstream of a particulate filter to catch and remove a substantial amount of the precipitate that is formed. One drawback to the lanthanum approach is that much of the precipitated material may escape capture and simply settle out in the system somewhere. That may not be an issue, but many aquarists do not prefer to accumulate such material. A second concern is that some people have observed problematic reactions from aquarium inhabitants. While there are not a lot of such stories, it is enough for many aquarists to look for other options.

However, due to its low cost, this approach is especially well suited to outside of the tank operations, such as the removal of excess phosphate from phosphate-contaminated calcium carbonate rock that is later to be added to a reef aquarium.

Soluble iron has also been used in this way, but not nearly so often as lanthanum.

 

[Miami Reef]

Thank you Randy!

I’m here to report back on my findings! I have been dealing with extremely high phosphates in my tank (no corals yet). I have a ULR phosphorous checker and it tested over the limit (200ppb blinking over 0.60ppm). The vial turned light blue. Even after using phosguard and water changes.

I got the bottle of Phosphate E and at first I dosed into my 1 micron socks, but then I did a test dose in my 100 micron socks and didn’t see any residue in my skimmer which told me that the socks were exporting it.

The tank did not get cloudy whatsoever. I just tested my phosphates and it’s 22 ppb (about 0.07ppm). This was not even 24 hours from my 200ppb reading. I realized I dropped it relatively quick, but my Alkalinity is around 8.5-9dkh.

I am expecting the rocks to leach out the phosphates, but this is an incredible method. I did purchase some GFO, but this lanthanum chloride is some good stuff.

 

[polyppal]

Thanks.

Why is lanthanum chloride so underrated? I don’t see any mention of it in @Randy Holmes-Farley ’s phosphate article.

I did a little experiment by mixing brightwell neophos and brightwell phosphate E (phosphates and lanthanum chloride, respectively). It instantly caused a while cloud percipient which was very fine. It seems correct that using a small micron sock is ideal.

I’m dealing with rocks that probably have about 1ppm phosphates, and using lanthanum chloride seems much quicker, cheaper. I think the trying to remove the precipitation is the most annoying part.

Or should I just use GFO since it’s more proven and used in the industry?

I switched to full LaCl dosing over gfo about a month ago and I love it. Ran a line from the doser into my filter sock, it drips about 4ml of the neophos phosban-l a day and keeps thinks steady despite over feeding and fairly heavy stocking.

i use reef diapers (which are much larger than 1micron) but never had issue w precipitate or cloudiness or fish irritation.

don’t think I’d use the full strength super concentrated stuff - I had to mix the bottle of neophos phosban-l with like 1 part rodi before adding it to the dosing container

 

[Miami Reef]

I had to mix the bottle of neophos with like 1 part rodi before adding it to the dosing container

Neophos is a bottle of phosphate. Are you sure you aren’t talking about phosphate e which is lanthanum chloride?

 

[polyppal]

Neophos is a bottle of phosphate. Are you sure you aren’t talking about phosphate e which is lanthanum chloride?

Sorry yeah phosban-l two little fishies

 

[jda]

When I take phosphate out of rock, I just turn the socks inside out and then wash them in just hot water. No bleach. Are you sure that you cannot get those inside out? Can you cut that plastic tab out and still have them work? I cut all of the plastic out of mine and hold them up with squeeze clams. The socks that I used got softer and easier to manipulate after the first wash, or two.

I let them air dry.

My guess is that you will be back up to the 200ppb limit in a day, or so, once the aragonite unbinds some po4. This will happen a bunch. Go slow if you have corals in the tank. Removing the po4 is no issue, but bouncing up and down so much can be for some inhabitants. I use this stuff in bins with only rock, so I do go pretty quick and it still can take a month or two - it can take a few weeks for the stuff bound more inside of the rock to unbind.

 

[Miami Reef]

My guess is that you will be back up to the 200ppb limit in a day, or so, once the aragonite unbinds some po4.

I’ll keep you posted on this!

I can turn my 100 microns inside out, but not the 1 microns. They are extremely stiff and thick. I will wash them more to get them softer.

I think the ultimate hack is to let the 100 micron socks sit for about a week for the detritus to clog the sock which makes the micron much smaller. Then to dose! But I’m not seeing any clouding even with the 100 micron socks being new. Is there a way we can find out what micron lanthanum phosphate is? @Randy Holmes-Farley

I don’t have any corals yet (tank is relatively new and is in the maturation stage). I will test phosphates tomorrow and see what I get.

 

[Miami Reef]

Phosphate in the Reef Aquarium

The phosphorus atom is one of living matter's basic building blocks. It is present in every living creature and in every reef aquarium's water. Unfortunately, it is often present in excess in reef aquaria, and that excess has the potential to cause at least two substantial problems for...

www.reefedition.com

Soluble Metals to Bind Phosphate

There are several approaches that add soluble metals to bind and precipitate phosphate. The most popular involves adding lanthanum, which precipitates as lanthanum phosphate and/or lanthanum carbonate (which itself may contain some lanthanum phosphate). The lanthanum approach is widely used in the pool industry to reduce phosphate, and seems to often work well in aquaria. It is also very inexpensive, using products such as Seaklear (make sure it is a pure lanthanum version as mixtures with other metals also exist). Note that this method reduces alkalinity, as removing carbonate and phosphate as a lanthanum precipitate will reduce alkalinity.

One way to use it is to drip is slowly just upstream of a particulate filter to catch and remove a substantial amount of the precipitate that is formed. One drawback to the lanthanum approach is that much of the precipitated material may escape capture and simply settle out in the system somewhere. That may not be an issue, but many aquarists do not prefer to accumulate such material. A second concern is that some people have observed problematic reactions from aquarium inhabitants. While there are not a lot of such stories, it is enough for many aquarists to look for other options.

However, due to its low cost, this approach is especially well suited to outside of the tank operations, such as the removal of excess phosphate from phosphate-contaminated calcium carbonate rock that is later to be added to a reef aquarium.

Soluble iron has also been used in this way, but not nearly so often as lanthanum.

Oh, I thought this was your article which I didn’t see a section of metal dosing in: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Oh, I thought this was your article which I didn’t see a section of metal dosing in: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

It is, just older before lanthanum became popular.

 

[Miami Reef]

Minor update. Phosphates dropped even more and I didn’t even dose any more since the 0.07ppm update.

Now I reached 7ppb (0.02ppm)

Lanthanum chloride is awesome stuff. I can’t wait to see how much the phosphates will rise tomorrow. I’m not expecting it to go to 200ppb but we’ll see.

 

[Sean Clark]

How much did you dose?

 

[rocket098]

I would get the filter cups and put filter floss in them then just throw out the floss when done

 

[Miami Reef]

How much did you dose?

I think I half a quarter of the bottle left. Big tank issues lol.

 

[Miami Reef]

Wait. I said half a quarter but I meant to say a quarter. I was debating if I had half the bottle or a quarter of the bottle left. It’s somewhere in between.

 

[Miami Reef]

Morning update: phosphates at 12ppb (0.037ppm)

I thought it would shoot up to over 200ppb lol.

I will wait until tomorrow to test again.