How to successfully keep SPS Corals!

[mtraylor]

Just curious with the sps keepers.
How long do you keep your frags at the bottom to get used to your lighting etc before you start to move them to their permanent location?

Once the corals are acclimated to the tank, if the sps frags have not started to encrust the plug, do you keep it on plug and glue it to the rock or do you keep the plug its on and glue that to the rock as well?

If its encrusted I would think that you would just glue the whole thing.

I personally just glue the frags right where I want them in respect to the rock work where I want them to grow. I have all led setup. Its best to get them where they should be from the get go. I do not do any kind of light acclimation either. They settle in real quick and start growing. Haven't had an issue yet.

 

[pdiehm]

I personally just glue the frags right where I want them in respect to the rock work where I want them to grow. I have all led setup. Its best to get them where they should be from the get go. I do not do any kind of light acclimation either. They settle in real quick and start growing. Haven't had an issue yet.

interesting. all you hear is how they will bleach out.

 

[mcarroll]

All reefs are not equal.

All reefers are not equal.

But it's true that frags are much less prone to bleaching than mature colonies.

It will help A LOT if there are plentiful food items and some dissolved nutrients in the water. Especially P.

If it's a very brightly lit system (you'd have to use a lux or PAR meter to know for sure) then it will also be more prone to bleach any new corals vs a moderately- or low-lit reef.

Available nutrients are even more important in a brightly lit tank. Especially P.

Also, isn't there an old saying that you should believe half of what you see and nothing that you hear? ;)

 

[KJoFan]

How about this:

Tank: IM40
Light: 2x AI Prime (one HD, one non)

Params as of last night:
NO3 - 2.5 (holding steady at 2.5 for a couple weeks. Down from the average of 5-10 previously)
PO4 - .04 (recent drop from .1-.2 with addition of 1/3 dose of gfo)
Alk - 9.5 dKH
Ca - 400

SPS colonies added 3ish weeks ago have mostly held color, if not darkened a bit. SPS frags in the tank for a couple months+ now are slowly shifting from mostly brown or green to brighter shades of green and maybe some colors other than brown or green but hard to tell yet.

Light schedule has blues peaking at 90-100% a few times throughout the schedule (12 hours including ramp up/down). I think whites never run above 30-35% throughout the schedule. I ran my lux meter across the top of the tank the other day and as I recall it, I'd hover around 10,000 lux at the corners and edges and up to 60,000 directly under the Primes (esp. the HD). If I take those two numbers and average them at 35,000 lux or so and divide by 60 for LED lighting, my average par at the surface is around 550?? Is that accurate?

My concern is my falling nutrients and potential high light situation and if Alk is too high for the nutrients. Tank is 19" deep I believe and lights are...at best guess 8" off the surface. SPS actually in the tank are 1/2 way down or lower in the tank, and frags on the rack are along the side in the upper 1/3 of the tank on the non-hd side.

Are nutrients/readings vs light off balance? Am I getting by fine because sps aren't high up in the tank? I am doing the 1/3 dose of gfo to hopefully keep PO4 where it is, no lower and dosing 1 mil of Red Sea NOPOX which I think is somewhat responsible for the lower NO3.

Other filtration is ghost skimmer, chaeto/fuge and a media basket with about 10-12 MarinePure spheres.

Remaining corals are lps/soft all low on the rock or on the sand and everything looks fantastic. So..if it ain't broke? Or is there some fine tuning/changing I could do? Of course I want to keep lps and softies looking fantastic AND bring out the colors in the sps.

 

[mcarroll]

I use a conversion factor of 50 just to keep it simple and that works out to 700-1200 PAR.

Yes if it ain't broke....don't fix it....

Minor points:

• I'd lose the marine pure unless you have no live rock.
• I'd quit carbon dosing.
• I'd quit using GFO.
• Do it gradually, but it would be my goal to discontinue all three.

Those are all bandaids to the real problem – a problem I'm not sure you even have :) – and all can have unindented side-effects.

(Trying to removing excess dissolved nutrients from the water after the fact is no remedy to a nutrient input problem.)

 

[pdiehm]

I use a conversion factor of 50 just to keep it simple and that works out to 700-1200 PAR.

Yes if it ain't broke....don't fix it....

Minor points:

• I'd lose the marine pure unless you have no live rock.
• I'd quit carbon dosing.
• I'd quit using GFO.
• Do it gradually, but it would be my goal to discontinue all three.

Those are all bandaids to the real problem – a problem I'm not sure you even have :) – and all can have unindented side-effects.

(Trying to removing excess dissolved nutrients from the water after the fact is no remedy to a nutrient input problem.)

Why lose the marinepure?

 

[KJoFan]

I use a conversion factor of 50 just to keep it simple and that works out to 700-1200 PAR.

Yes if it ain't broke....don't fix it....

Minor points:

• I'd lose the marine pure unless you have no live rock.
• I'd quit carbon dosing.
• I'd quit using GFO.
• Do it gradually, but it would be my goal to discontinue all three.

Those are all bandaids to the real problem – a problem I'm not sure you even have :) – and all can have unindented side-effects.

(Trying to removing excess dissolved nutrients from the water after the fact is no remedy to a nutrient input problem.)

I did take more lux readings across the entire surface of the tank when I got home, averaged them, and divided by 60, which gave me an average of 240 PAR. These were pretty quick readings so..take it for what it's worth. I got nothing higher than upper 20,000 lux on the non-hd side and 40-50,000 lux directly under the HD Prime. Quite a difference there.

To be honest, I forget about every 3rd night to even dose the carbon so...I'm not sure that's doing a whole lot overall anyway. I will quit it all together and see where NO3 goes. I don't know that it has much effect on PO4 based on my readings before gfo. I think 0.1-0.2 PO4 according to Hanna ULR is too high and that's why colors on sps are brown/drab. Am I wrong?

To echo @pdiehm why remove the marine pure? I have plenty of LR, but don't see the harm in the extra bio filtration? I'm not concerned with Al levels, if that's one of your angles to quitting it.

Ideally I would not use gfo as I don't feel it provides a consistent PO4 level (new vs exhausted, etc) but...I also don't want 0.1-0.2 PO4 either, as I feel it's detrimental. Feeding is sparse overall and in fact I need to probably increase it for the sake of some of the fish; usually LRS maybe 2-3x per week, more like 1-2 times. The occasional pellet feeding when I'm too lazy to thaw frozen. And the occasional reef chili or reef roids to the tune of a couple times per month.

 

[mtraylor]

interesting. all you hear is how they will bleach out.

Yeah my theory is that some people have narrow optics and they are not wide spread....thus they can burn corals easily. I have GHL mitras with wide reflectors and the light is spread out nice an evenly. There also may be a factor of how much white light each person is pumping into their aquarium as well. I did the same thing when I had MH's and continue to do the same thing with my LED's. No issues. There were people acclimating with MH's as well. Not sure why.

I also think allot of people read the threads and think that they have to do the same and follow suite. JMO. I think LED fixtures with wide spread spectrum will have no issues as long as their is not allot of excessive white LED's.

 

[happyhourhero]

I personally just glue the frags right where I want them in respect to the rock work where I want them to grow. I have all led setup. Its best to get them where they should be from the get go. I do not do any kind of light acclimation either. They settle in real quick and start growing. Haven't had an issue yet.

I do this too and also run LED. Have not had any bleach although I do try and buy from vendors also using LED.

 

[pdiehm]

My leds have 90 optics. So maybe run mine lower than the 60/51 recommendation by reefbreeders?

 

[mcarroll]

I got nothing higher than upper 20,000 lux on the non-hd side and 40-50,000 lux directly under the HD Prime. Quite a difference there.

Interesting. Assuming they're set up similarly and they are rated for about the same amount of watts, that doesn't sound right. 20,000 is about plenty for most corals, FYI, so you can feel free to back off the HD. Do it a little at a time though.

To be honest, I forget about every 3rd night to even dose the carbon so...I'm not sure that's doing a whole lot overall anyway. I will quit it all together and see where NO3 goes. I don't know that it has much effect on PO4 based on my readings before gfo.

+1

It's more of a way to boost denitrification....true.

I think 0.1-0.2 PO4 according to Hanna ULR is too high and that's why colors on sps are brown/drab. Am I wrong?

I'd look at that lighting discrepency....has it always been "off kilter" like that? Corals will darken to increase their photo-capability too.

To echo @pdiehm why remove the marine pure? I have plenty of LR, but don't see the harm in the extra bio filtration? I'm not concerned with Al levels, if that's one of your angles to quitting it.

Why enable excessive denitrification – very often that just leads to formation of cyano mats?

If you have a nice set of corals (and macroalgae if you want) then that's where you want those nitrates (and other dissolved nutrients) to go. :)

Ideally I would not use gfo as I don't feel it provides a consistent PO4 level (new vs exhausted, etc) but...I also don't want 0.1-0.2 PO4 either, as I feel it's detrimental.

Wait and see if your corals think it is. :) Large amounts of P or N have proven to be harmless is plenty of tanks....and you're talking about levels that really aren't that high.

As long as nutrient levels remain relatively constant, I don't think absolute numbers matter a whole lot. Zero is the one number to be avoided. Constant – a lack of spikes – is not really that easy to pull off though.

Feeding is sparse overall and in fact I need to probably increase it for the sake of some of the fish; usually LRS maybe 2-3x per week, more like 1-2 times. The occasional pellet feeding when I'm too lazy to thaw frozen. And the occasional reef chili or reef roids to the tune of a couple times per month.

Hardware has never been cheaper or better, so use auto-feeders and dosers whenever they are a good idea!

I'm sorta bad at remembering to feed and it's hard to keep my quantity consistent when I do feed, so I just ordered this combo myself:


Eheim "Feed-Air" Digital Automatic Feeder
As low as $32.99


Eheim feedingSTATION
As low as $7.42

 

[KJoFan]

Interesting. Assuming they're set up similarly and they are rated for about the same amount of watts, that doesn't sound right. 20,000 is about plenty for most corals, FYI, so you can feel free to back off the HD. Do it a little at a time though.

Well, they are set up the same. One parent, one child running one schedule. I could back off the HD, but to be honest I'm unsure how to "orphan" one of them from the parent in order to run them independently. But, I don't know that I'll bother trying to figure it out, as I will (in the next month?) be swapping out the Primes for a Nanobox Wide Quad. Which I'm nervous about.

I'd look at that lighting discrepency....has it always been "off kilter" like that? Corals will darken to increase their photo-capability too.

I can't say if it has or hasn't been off kilter always, I've never bothered to take thorough (read: any) lux readings until now. So you're saying it's possible the sps are somewhat darker than when first obtained because they could be getting more light than needed?

Why enable excessive denitrification – very often that just leads to formation of cyano mats?

If you have a nice set of corals (and macroalgae if you want) then that's where you want those nitrates (and other dissolved nutrients) to go. :)

Point taken. Ideally, the macro growing in the fuge area, along with the skimmer, LR and coral load will be enough to keep nutrients in line. I'm lazy and prefer simplicity.

Wait and see if your corals think it is. :) Large amounts of P or N have proven to be harmless is plenty of tanks....and you're talking about levels that really aren't that high.

As long as nutrient levels remain relatively constant, I don't think absolute numbers matter a whole lot. Zero is the one number to be avoided. Constant – a lack of spikes – is not really that easy to pull off though.

How long does one wait? Nutrients in the prior tank were also in that same range for NO3 (maybe more like 10-20 because it was skimmerless) and .1-.2 for PO4 and some of these sps pieces have been brown for months.

Hardware has never been cheaper or better, so use auto-feeders and dosers whenever they are a good idea!

I'm sorta bad at remembering to feed and it's hard to keep my quantity consistent when I do feed, so I just ordered this combo myself:


Eheim "Feed-Air" Digital Automatic Feeder
As low as $32.99


Eheim feedingSTATION
As low as $7.42

I have a few of those feeders around, but generally only use them when away for a week or something. I don't have that nifty feed station though. Might have to check that out. Do I want to be adding dry food that's known to be high in PO4 though if PO4 tends to run high as it is? Or, negligible?

 

[mcarroll]

My leds have 90 optics. So maybe run mine lower than the 60/51 recommendation by reefbreeders?

Recommendations only apply at the beginning, and a particular ratio like that would me more of a starting point to find your color preference, at least IMO.

If your corals are adapted to the light you're currently providing, then there's a good chance that changing your lighting is a bad idea.....or at the very least should be done in small, well-spaced steps.

Optics do change the shape of light entering your tank, but not in a way that seems to matter a lot to corals. Measure the levels you are providing with a lux meter (or PAR meter) and that will tell you the levels entering the tank regardless of lenses.

Just for the record, my low-light stony coral tank runs on 30º lenses.... ;)

 

[mcarroll]

Well, they are set up the same.

I'd drop a line to AI then and ask about it. Not sure what your support options are, but I'd use em.

So you're saying it's possible the sps are somewhat darker than when first obtained because

...maybe because of a drop in light from the non-HD Prime. ;)

How long does one wait? Nutrients in the prior tank were also in that same range for NO3 (maybe more like 10-20 because it was skimmerless) and .1-.2 for PO4 and some of these sps pieces have been brown for months.

As far as I know NO3 would be the more likely culprit.

Do I want to be adding dry food that's known to be high in PO4 though if PO4 tends to run high as it is? Or, negligible?

I wouldn't say the idea of using the feeder is to add anything except more consistency. Don't use it to increase overall feeding. (Not yet, anyway.)

(Dry food should not be the sole source of nutrition for bigger, better reasons than this. Hopefully it's a minor component.)

 

[KJoFan]

I'd drop a line to AI then and ask about it. Not sure what your support options are, but I'd use em.

I can make an inquiry I suppose. I knew the non-HD had less power but half as much...I don't know.

...maybe because of a drop in light from the non-HD Prime. ;)

The majority of the sps, including the frag rack are on the non-HD side...of course. haha. I have the rack in the upper 1/3 but being off to the side, even in this size tank, I bet the light they're getting is not very good.

As far as I know NO3 would be the more likely culprit.

You don't think high PO4 affects the colors of sps as much as NO3? Or, just that higher NO3 would be more likely to bring out the lovely shades of brown?

I wouldn't say the idea of using the feeder is to add anything except more consistency. Don't use it to increase overall feeding. (Not yet, anyway.)
(Dry food should not be the sole source of nutrition for bigger, better reasons than this. Hopefully it's a minor component.)

I try to use dry food very sparingly, I try to stick to frozen, and mostly LRS at that. Just because I think it pollutes less overall. But, regular daily feeding, even if on the small side would probably do some good. Maybe my Yasha goby wouldn't be forever rail thin. :(

 

[mcarroll]

The majority of the sps, including the frag rack are on the non-HD side...of course. haha. I have the rack in the upper 1/3 but being off to the side, even in this size tank, I bet the light they're getting is not very good.

"Not very good" just meaning different than before.....it's an adaptation to the lower light if this is what's going on. There's nothing wrong with 20,000 lux per se.....just that it must be different from what they were used to.

You don't think high PO4 affects the colors of sps as much as NO3? Or, just that higher NO3 would be more likely to bring out the lovely shades of brown?

Dino's are a lot like an annual plant......so dissolved nutrients have similar effects. N makes them split and grow in number. P does to an extent as well, but is more notably used in other processes.

Reduced light gives a similar darkening effect, but from a different cause....the dino cells your corals have grow larger so they can harvest more light per cell. (The coral also has to adapt their pigments and other aspects, but that seems to take a lot longer than the dino's response.)

I try to use dry food very sparingly, I try to stick to frozen, and mostly LRS at that. Just because I think it pollutes less overall. But, regular daily feeding, even if on the small side would probably do some good. Maybe my Yasha goby wouldn't be forever rail thin. :(

You definitely have room to keep an auto-feeder then....just cut back by a feeding of frozen and substitute the auto-feeder's production.....and watch for a few weeks how things develop.

I haven't always thought this, but nowadays I think a reef tank may be one of the best places to use an auto-feeder. (A friend who uses them convinced me slowly over the last few years.)

I even think it (regularity of feeding) is a big part of the benefit @Paul B gives to his system.....he seems to almost always have something going on food-wise, especially with the baby-brine-shrimp feeder complementing his other feeding activities. (Of course I don't think he uses flake or dry food at all...a good place to be if you can get there.)

 

[Ashish Patel]

This is my first SPS dominate tank so I could use all the help and advice available.

How important is dosing Amino acids such as Acropower for SPS tanks

 

[mcarroll]

I'd say circumstantially useful.....most tanks should have no need.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I'd say circumstantially useful.....most tanks should have no need.

My tanks 3 months old...While I am not aiming for ULN system I decided to focus on removing all organics as fast as possible mechanically and chemically. However, I feel I am starving my corals.. I have not seen any signs of growth after 3 weeks of adding them to the tank.

 

[Scott.h]

My tanks 3 months old...While I am not aiming for ULN system I decided to focus on removing all organics as fast as possible mechanically and chemically. However, I feel I am starving my corals.. I have not seen any signs of growth after 3 weeks of adding them to the tank.

At 3 months old and by looking at the maturity of the rocks, you are yet to go through the "ugly phase". Controlling nutrients during the green ugly phase helps, but it something you have to get through. I wouldn't let nutrients get to where they are undetectable, nor let them get too high, especially trying to start out with sps. Swings in these perimeters aren't good either. I would not use gfo at all unless absolutely needed. The next 3 months are going to be pretty tough to grow healthy corals unless you have a nice sump with some mature goodies in it.