I found wood in my RSM E260

splix · Oct 29, 2017

Ever since starting this tank up, my BTA's have looked like hell, and have been getting worse. I figured it's just them getting used to the lighting. Then last week a bacteria bloom happens, and I'm a little confused as to why, but I was just letting it do it's thing. I then test phosphates and they're sky high, like 0.5 high. This is completely not normal for me and my tanks. This is not my first tank transfer and I know the rock is good because I've been using it myself in another tank for the last couple of years. While the lights are off and I'm trying to tune my skimmer to be as wet as possible, I can see with the flashlight a piece of brown something under the rear skimmer brace. It looks like wood, like Red Sea forgot to take it out after letting the rear skimmer brace set. I pull the skimmer and stick my hand down there and sure enough, it feels like wood. The skimmer brace feels like plastic or similar, but underneath it, wet wood. Stuck between the rear skimmer brace and the bottom of the tank. I cant get it out because it feels glued in. I didnt notice it before because you cant see it from top down. The only way you'll see it is from the top looking sideways through the glass panels.

So thats cool. My new RSM tank pretty much nuked itself. Killing most of my inverts, sky high phosphates because it feels like piece of MDF, so it's been leaking whatever glues or epoxy used to make it. I dont know how I'm going to get it out. The tank has been running for weeks now, and my 1st attempt to see what it was, it felt glued in.

I tried looking at pics on red sea's site of the rear filtration setup for the E260 and they show the bottom rear skimmer brace, and it's floating around a 1/2" above the bottom, nothing under it. So I'm assuming this was left in from manufacturing.

This sucks, I've lost about $1k in anemones because of this. Not to mention the $60 in salt I'm going to have to burn through to refill the thing after the massive water change I've got to do now, if I can get it out.

Denisk · Oct 29, 2017

Sorry to hear about the losses in anemones. But I would definitely contact Red Sea!

splix · Oct 30, 2017

Denisk said:
Sorry to hear about the losses in anemones. But I would definitely contact Red Sea!

Only contact I could find for them is email. I already sent that.
I just cant believe it. To be fair, even I missed it. It's difficult to see because you have narrow visibility into the bottom of the skimmer chamber, and it's under the brace. But seriously, you spend so much $ on these tanks, you would think QC would be a bit higher. Also being able to call the company would be nice for consumers.

At the end of the day, i'm not sure what Red Sea could/would even do for me. The last thing I want is a new tank to setup. I just reallllly hope my live rock and sand are fine and not leaching whatever the wood was giving off. If my rock and sand are needing replaced, then I'll really be unhappy.

Denisk · Oct 30, 2017

splix said:
Only contact I could find for them is email. I already sent that.
I just cant believe it. To be fair, even I missed it. It's difficult to see because you have narrow visibility into the bottom of the skimmer chamber, and it's under the brace. But seriously, you spend so much $ on these tanks, you would think QC would be a bit higher. Also being able to call the company would be nice for consumers.

At the end of the day, i'm not sure what Red Sea could/would even do for me. The last thing I want is a new tank to setup. I just reallllly hope my live rock and sand are fine and not leaching whatever the wood was giving off. If my rock and sand are needing replaced, then I'll really be unhappy.

Yeah I completely understand. I had an issue with reefer 350 and all I could find is an email too. You will have to also go their website and there is place where you fill out a forum and send it in as well. Although throughout it they were pretty responsive but on the slower side. Not ideal but not much I can do about it either.

splix · Oct 30, 2017

So this morning I pulled the skimmer and drained a little so I could get to it. There is no way it's coming out, it's glued down hard.

jsker · Oct 30, 2017

Not to be argumentative and sorry for your losses, but just my thoughts.

If there is a piece of wood, the wood will not effect the tank, and just rot away over a long time depending on the wood. If MDF the MDF would have turned to mush by now. If you have a picture that would be helpful to determine or just to get eyes on the issue.

splix · Oct 30, 2017

I've been trying to get pictures this morning. It's tough because there isnt a clear way to see it. I took a razor blade and took a "sample" of it, and it's MDF for sure.
The weird thing is, it's gluded in there big time, like it's supposed to be there. It feels like there is a plastic piece along the bottom under it, and it's glued to the glass skimmer brace, and I believe all along the back wall as well. It's not coming out.

MnFish1 · Oct 30, 2017

can't see what you mean.

Antics · Oct 30, 2017

If I'm seeing it right it looks like a piece of spacer wood used to hold the skimmer shelf in place while the silicon cures. The block never got removed I'm assuming?

Fishmanz · Oct 30, 2017

Sorry, but some wood isn’t causing your issues. You say your own sink is new and high phos which is completely normal, also adding a nem to a fairy new tank, under a year old is always a gamble.

You haven’t posted any info on parameters, or tank setup, yet feel the need to bash and blame your problem on a business.

splix · Oct 30, 2017

Antics said:
If I'm seeing it right it looks like a piece of spacer wood used to hold the skimmer shelf in place while the silicon cures. The block never got removed I'm assuming?

My thoughts also. I'm not sure if they forgot or just said "F it" because it's basically also glued to the glass also.

MnFish1 said:
can't see what you mean.

It's a little hard to explain if you dont know the tank. The black block is supposed to be there, it's what the skimmer rests on in the rear chamber. Under it, the brown square, is a block of MDF that was never removed during the tank build. It's hard to see. I even missed it while setting the tank up.

splix · Oct 30, 2017

Fishmanz said:
Sorry, but some wood isn’t causing your issues. You say your own sink is new and high phos which is completely normal, also adding a nem to a fairy new tank, under a year old is always a gamble.

You haven’t posted any info on parameters, or tank setup, yet feel the need to bash and blame your problem on a business.

It's a tank transfer from my other tank. Some (about a cup) sand came over, all live rock went right from the old to the new, about 20% of water moved over as well. This is not the first time I've done a tank transfer, even with these exact nems, so I knew exactly what to expect. I even brought them over from t5's in a nano to LED's in my main display. They never looked this bad. po4 in my previous tank was always undetectable.

1.026 salt
0 ammonia
2-3 nitrates
8.3 pH
78 temp
325 ORP
9 alk
430 calc
1430 mag
0.5 po4
I feed 1cm square of LRS once a day, nori in the afternoon. No way in hell my po4 went from 0 to 0.5 in a few weeks with minimal feeding and wet skimming without a contaminate.
It's MDF, not like a wood stick. You're right, a wood stick wouldnt do much if anything. MDF is basically a block of sawdust held together with glue. I got a good chunk of it out and it smelled horrible, like pure sulfur. It was so potent that I had to throw it outside because it was making the room I was in smell.

MnFish1 · Oct 30, 2017

splix said:
It's a tank transfer from my other tank. Some (about a cup) sand came over, all live rock went right from the old to the new, about 20% of water moved over as well. This is not the first time I've done a tank transfer, even with these exact nems, so I knew exactly what to expect. I even brought them over from t5's in a nano to LED's in my main display. They never looked this bad. po4 in my previous tank was always undetectable.

1.026 salt
0 ammonia
2-3 nitrates
8.3 pH
78 temp
325 ORP
9 alk
430 calc
1430 mag
0.5 po4
I feed 1cm square of LRS once a day, nori in the afternoon. No way in hell my po4 went from 0 to 0.5 in a few weeks with minimal feeding and wet skimming without a contaminate.
It's MDF, not like a wood stick. You're right, a wood stick wouldnt do much if anything. MDF is basically a block of sawdust held together with glue. I got a good chunk of it out and it smelled horrible, like pure sulfur. It was so potent that I had to throw it outside because it was making the room I was in smell.

Can you post a picture with an arrow or something - I have 2 RSR. Does MDF contain phosphorous? I understand its formaldehyde containing glue (no PO4) and wood. Do you use carbon? Did anything else die? If you have no nitrates - dont see how the wood caused high PO4. If there was some toxin in that piece, wouldn't something else be doing poorly besides your anemones?

FWIW I had a carpet anemone for 3 years - transferred into my RSR (on a rock - so didnt need to detach it) within 2 weeks it was dead - despite using 50% of the water etc. These things happen when you move things from tank to tank - and it can be random - Not saying that whatever you say is there should be there - but - doubt it caused your problems - unless several other things are dying also (JMHO). My anemone just shrank and turned to mush - without explanation (except for the changes). Which they do not tolerate.

splix · Oct 30, 2017

MnFish1 said:
Can you post a picture with an arrow or something - I have 2 RSR. Does MDF contain phosphorous? I understand its formaldehyde containing glue (no PO4) and wood. Do you use carbon? Did anything else die? If you have no nitrates - dont see how the wood caused high PO4. If there was some toxin in that piece, wouldn't something else be doing poorly besides your anemones?

FWIW I had a carpet anemone for 3 years - transferred into my RSR (on a rock - so didnt need to detach it) within 2 weeks it was dead - despite using 50% of the water etc. These things happen when you move things from tank to tank - and it can be random - Not saying that whatever you say is there should be there - but - doubt it caused your problems - unless several other things are dying also (JMHO). My anemone just shrank and turned to mush - without explanation (except for the changes). Which they do not tolerate.

Yep I complete get it and agree. I could just tell something wasnt right though. I thought it was lights so I kept turning them down, way below what other people were running hydra 26's at on the same tank. All 12 BTA's fully open but tentacles shriveled up. Mushrooms not fully open, zoas closed, etc. All the easy mode coral was just not happy. I kept doing 15% water changes every weekend and it would show some relief but by the next weekend, everything was looking worse. Yes I run carbon.
Nothing complete died, yet. I just did a 75% water change today and things look amazing from what they were. Mushrooms are huge now, all zoas are open. I'm sure it'll change here in a few days. I'm waiting for resolution from Red Sea.

I read somewhere (yeah yeah i know haha but you look for anything when you're worrying) about wood in a reef tank, and specifically MDF in a tank. They said tannins from wood may become an issue but a "stick" wouldnt be a big deal. MDF was a different story though. Someone was saying MDF would cause big time issues because it's basically just a block of glue and chemicals with sawdust. po4 was a hot topic with wood in a reef tank.

I know it'll get resolved. My biggest worry is my live rock absorbing whatever chemicals and just sitting there leaching it for however long. I'm really not in the mood for new live rock haha.

Mortie31 · Oct 31, 2017

Surely there must be other owners on here who can check in there sumps and let you know if it's meant to be there or not... one problem with manufacturers forum pages is a lot of fan boys flatly refuse to believe it could be a manufacturing problem.. good luck pal and if it is s mistake and should of been removed before sale, I'd be pushing for them to replace every absorbent material in the tank at there cost. We need to stop defending manufacturers so much and get them to improve..

Antics · Oct 31, 2017

It 100% shouldn't be there. It serves no purpose other than to allow the skimmer ledge to adhere to the back wall of the aquarium. It should have been removed before the tank was palleted.

This coming from someone who has multiple Red Sea tanks and generally believes them to be one of the best companies in the hobby for quality products and customer service.

splix · Oct 31, 2017

You are correct, it is 100% not supposed to be there. Red Sea themselves said it's not supposed to be there. It must have accidentally gotten glued in when the skimmer brace was setting. There is no way a piece of MDF is supposed to be in a reef tank.
Just to be clear, I am in no way bashing Red Sea. I think Red Sea tank is hands down one of the best complete system tanks for consumer level. Even with the couple issues I've had, I've not been deterred at all with the quality of the aquarium as a whole. I'd buy the tank over and over again if I had to, there are no regrets with going with Red Sea. Just.....be more thorough than I was while checking it over haha.

cmcoker · Oct 31, 2017

So I guess you have been in contact with them, then?
You gotta go to red sea distributor tab on their webpage to find a number, in the US it is 888REDSEA9, if you still need/want a number.

splix · Nov 8, 2017

Just as an update, Red Sea made it right without hassle. They are a great company to work with and plan on using their tanks from now on (as I always have).