Found a lot of white dots on my black and white clown fish about a week ago. It looks like ich. He has been acting differently. I setup up a QT on Monday using my old 55 gallon freshwater tank. Let me know if I'm doing this right I am a neebie. I filled the QT with 15g of saltwater. Going to put them through hypo salinity at the moment is at 1.18. Going to lower it to 1.10. Going to add meds tonight. Didn't want to do it right away because I had to tear down my display tank just to take them out. It created a lot of stress on them. I have 2 clown fish 1 yellow head goby 1 purple firefish. My star lfish and other invert are fine. Also I have the temperature at 82 in the QT. Here's a picture of my clownish. And a picture of my gold head goby doesn't seem healthy to you? Their color are beginning to change. My black clown is a little brown. They are not eating. I will be doing a 25% water change ever 2 to 3 day so it won't go through a cycle.
Ich on my fishes?
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Adam Baggett
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You are right to get the fish out, is this your only fish? Is this a FOWLER Fish Only With Live Rock tank? If not I would put all your fish in the QT and treat them with copper, all of them. Hypo salinity is a good way to go but do it gradually not all on the same day, you can do it over 2 - 3 days. I would not use the elevated temp though, keep them at the regular temp. Also I would do one thing at a time, treat with copper then change the water and run carbon and then lower the salinity. Use the Kiss method Keep It Simple Stupid and do not do too many things at the same time.
Treat with meds, clean the water, lower the salinity. One last thing you can do it to give them a fresh water bath, again look this up first before you do it.
One more thought, when your fish are in the hospital tank, you need to leave your main tank with no fish for 30 - 50 days. The Ich participate has a life cycle and it is possible you have breeding participates in the sand. If they have no fish to feed on then they will die out in your main tank after 30 - 50 days.
Here is a great article on how to do this. A Hyposalinity Treatment Process
Treat with meds, clean the water, lower the salinity. One last thing you can do it to give them a fresh water bath, again look this up first before you do it.
One more thought, when your fish are in the hospital tank, you need to leave your main tank with no fish for 30 - 50 days. The Ich participate has a life cycle and it is possible you have breeding participates in the sand. If they have no fish to feed on then they will die out in your main tank after 30 - 50 days.
Here is a great article on how to do this. A Hyposalinity Treatment Process
polancoeddie
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Is a reef tank. I do not have a Rodi I am using tap water for my QT. I use a dychlorinator to make the tap water save. They won't eat in their ether. I wonder if they will make it for 6 weeks in the QT. Their color has dipilted.
Adam Baggett
Active Member
That might be the tap water. It will have a different pH etc. How many gallons is your reef tank and how many gallons is your QT?
polancoeddie
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Yeah I'm using tap water for my QT. It's 15g . And my main tank is a 29g biocube I'm using ro/di water... did I just killed my fishes! By using tap water? I figured the salt would bring up the pH. Should I buy a ph increase. Or just go to my lfs and get some ro/di water?
Adam Baggett
Active Member
No what I would do it a water change and take the water from your main tank to fill you QT. Then put new water in you main tank.
polancoeddie
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I Hurd the parasite will like in the sand. That's why they advice you to do a bare bottom QT. And wouldn't that start a mini-cycle on my main tank. Would getting a ph buffer increase would resolve the problem?
Adam Baggett
Active Member
You are correct that if you do too big a water change you can send your tank into a mini cycle but it is about 50 to 60%. I have done 40 gal water change on my 75 gal tank with no issues. Anyway what I am saying is using the water from your display tank in your QT will help with stress on the fish. If you can invest in an RODI filter, I know it is a cost but it will save you money in the long term. What you can do is get the RO stage first BRS 4 Stage RO Only System - 75GPD - Bulk Reef Supply then add the DI stage later Dual Deionization Canister - Bulk Reef Supply to get that zero TDS.
You are correct the the QT must be bare bottom to make sure the Ich participate has no where to go. But one thing you might do is throw in some PVC elbows and pipes in different sizes (Not many just a couple) to give the fish somewhere to hide while you treat them.
I would not use a pH buffer, this will cause stress on the fish with a big swing in pH and they are already stressed.
It sounds like you are on the right track. Remember to QT any new fish and coral before you put them in the main tank. I do this for 30 - 40 days and treat fish with copper and other meds to make sure they are healthy before they go into my main tank.
I have 2 QT tanks, one for fish and one for coral and inverts because I do not want copper getting anywhere near the coral and inverts. My Fish QT is 50 gallons and my coral QT is 10 gallons.
You are correct the the QT must be bare bottom to make sure the Ich participate has no where to go. But one thing you might do is throw in some PVC elbows and pipes in different sizes (Not many just a couple) to give the fish somewhere to hide while you treat them.
I would not use a pH buffer, this will cause stress on the fish with a big swing in pH and they are already stressed.
It sounds like you are on the right track. Remember to QT any new fish and coral before you put them in the main tank. I do this for 30 - 40 days and treat fish with copper and other meds to make sure they are healthy before they go into my main tank.
I have 2 QT tanks, one for fish and one for coral and inverts because I do not want copper getting anywhere near the coral and inverts. My Fish QT is 50 gallons and my coral QT is 10 gallons.
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Kworker
Tang Lover
If the fish were in your display you need to remove all fish and go Fallow. I recommend a period over 72 days since that is the longest known period Ich has survived without a host.
There are a few methods you can choose to treat the fish for Ich. Copper, Hypo, and Tank Transfer.
Copper: I am not a fan of Copper. I tried it out with my Achilles and he freaked out with a low dose of it. If you decide to go with Copper, please make sure you have a reliable test kit for it. Also do your research to make sure whatever fish you are potentially QTing with it are known to handle copper well.
HypoSalinity: I used this method when I let my 180 go Fallow for 10.5 weeks. Hypo is only effective from 1.008-1.009, so if you have a small QT it may make keeping the salinity within this range difficult. Online many say you can drop the salinity in 48 hours, I rather take a week to get there. It's easier on the fish and yourself. If you are going fallow, you have plenty of time anyway. I've used Hypo for 4-5 weeks with apparent success. When you bring up the Salinity it must be slower than going down in Salinity. You can bring up the salinity .001 per day. Monitor the fish for a week prior to placing them back, but if this is during a fallow period you really have no choice anyway. Be aware that you want to monitor the fish afterwards because there are in fact strains of Ich that are resistant to Hypo. Also, there is the possibility of error during Hypo where you slipped on the salinity and gave the parasite leg room.
Tank Transfer: I am testing this method out right now. You want to have two sets of equipment for this. People have used 5 gallon buckets for it but I am a fan of giving the fish room to swim while in QT. I am also QTing several large fish. You want two sets of tanks, heaters and powerheads. You can just move over the light. Matching the temperature and salinity is very important in this, don't overcomplicate it either.
It works as such:
Day 1: Acclimate fish
Day 4: Have a second tank with all new water, second heater/powerhead set up. In the morning before the light goes on, transfer the fish with a net with as little water as possible over into the new QT. Again, make sure Temp/Salinity match, check pH too if you are paranoid. After you transfer the fish you can drain the other QT disinfect it and equipment with white vinegar and let it dry.
Day 5 or 6: Set up the disinfected tank to match temp/salinity.
Day 7: Repeat
Day 10: Repeat
Day 13: Repeat and observe for a week while treating with Prazipro for potential internal worms.
People appear to like to overcomplicate things, My fish were half asleep when I transferred them and they were hardly stressed from it. I just netted them up and moved them over. The only issue I had was my female trigger decided to wedge herself into a piece of PVC she couldn't get herself out of. I had to physically push her out gently. Within a half hour of being moved over they were all eating. Tank transfer appears to be a great method for people who are impatient, and even better for species that won't handle Copper or Hypo well.
Thinks that WON'T work. Waiting it out, Garlic, Cleaner Shrimp and UV Sterilizer.
Waiting: I tried this with my fish, didn't work too well. They didn't die from Ich but after two months I said this is ridiculous.
Garlic: Food won't kill a parasite, I'm not sure why anyone thinks this is a viable cure. Yes, garlic is a food enticer for food. People say you should feed well with garlic.. you should be feeding well to begin with.
Cleaner Shrimp: Yes, I have seen my tangs with Ich swim up to cleaner shrimp. Did I see them eat Ich? No. They did nothing but possibly help clear away dead skin from the infected area. I can't comment on Cleaner wrasses, but I highly doubt they can eat away a parasite thats within the skin of the fish. If somebody has proof that a Cleaner wrasse will eat the parasite on the fish I would love a link, I think that would be real cool but I have only read the opposite.
UV Sterilizer: There are several stages to the lifecycle of Ich, that I am not going to get into. There is a free swimming stage in the life cycle of Ich. However, unless EVERY individual parasite passes through the UV sterilizer this method is not viable. I'm sure it can aid the fish, but to me its just a possible band-aid.
I am open for disputes on my comment. That is part of the online forum, to get information straight. I am commenting merely on my experience in exception to just the UV sterilizer. I have tried every method to treat it, its very possible for people to have different experiences. However, I think for anyone to comment on issues it should make sense that they have 120% certainty in what they are saying. I just don't think people have that assurance when they say "I fed garlic, my fish has never got Ich since than." Ich also attaches to the inside of the fishes gills which can lead to thinking a infected individual is not infected, yet they are. Higher respiration can be a good indication with an infected individual.
Sorry for the long comment, and typos. I am sure there are plenty of them.
There are a few methods you can choose to treat the fish for Ich. Copper, Hypo, and Tank Transfer.
Copper: I am not a fan of Copper. I tried it out with my Achilles and he freaked out with a low dose of it. If you decide to go with Copper, please make sure you have a reliable test kit for it. Also do your research to make sure whatever fish you are potentially QTing with it are known to handle copper well.
HypoSalinity: I used this method when I let my 180 go Fallow for 10.5 weeks. Hypo is only effective from 1.008-1.009, so if you have a small QT it may make keeping the salinity within this range difficult. Online many say you can drop the salinity in 48 hours, I rather take a week to get there. It's easier on the fish and yourself. If you are going fallow, you have plenty of time anyway. I've used Hypo for 4-5 weeks with apparent success. When you bring up the Salinity it must be slower than going down in Salinity. You can bring up the salinity .001 per day. Monitor the fish for a week prior to placing them back, but if this is during a fallow period you really have no choice anyway. Be aware that you want to monitor the fish afterwards because there are in fact strains of Ich that are resistant to Hypo. Also, there is the possibility of error during Hypo where you slipped on the salinity and gave the parasite leg room.
Tank Transfer: I am testing this method out right now. You want to have two sets of equipment for this. People have used 5 gallon buckets for it but I am a fan of giving the fish room to swim while in QT. I am also QTing several large fish. You want two sets of tanks, heaters and powerheads. You can just move over the light. Matching the temperature and salinity is very important in this, don't overcomplicate it either.
It works as such:
Day 1: Acclimate fish
Day 4: Have a second tank with all new water, second heater/powerhead set up. In the morning before the light goes on, transfer the fish with a net with as little water as possible over into the new QT. Again, make sure Temp/Salinity match, check pH too if you are paranoid. After you transfer the fish you can drain the other QT disinfect it and equipment with white vinegar and let it dry.
Day 5 or 6: Set up the disinfected tank to match temp/salinity.
Day 7: Repeat
Day 10: Repeat
Day 13: Repeat and observe for a week while treating with Prazipro for potential internal worms.
People appear to like to overcomplicate things, My fish were half asleep when I transferred them and they were hardly stressed from it. I just netted them up and moved them over. The only issue I had was my female trigger decided to wedge herself into a piece of PVC she couldn't get herself out of. I had to physically push her out gently. Within a half hour of being moved over they were all eating. Tank transfer appears to be a great method for people who are impatient, and even better for species that won't handle Copper or Hypo well.
Thinks that WON'T work. Waiting it out, Garlic, Cleaner Shrimp and UV Sterilizer.
Waiting: I tried this with my fish, didn't work too well. They didn't die from Ich but after two months I said this is ridiculous.
Garlic: Food won't kill a parasite, I'm not sure why anyone thinks this is a viable cure. Yes, garlic is a food enticer for food. People say you should feed well with garlic.. you should be feeding well to begin with.
Cleaner Shrimp: Yes, I have seen my tangs with Ich swim up to cleaner shrimp. Did I see them eat Ich? No. They did nothing but possibly help clear away dead skin from the infected area. I can't comment on Cleaner wrasses, but I highly doubt they can eat away a parasite thats within the skin of the fish. If somebody has proof that a Cleaner wrasse will eat the parasite on the fish I would love a link, I think that would be real cool but I have only read the opposite.
UV Sterilizer: There are several stages to the lifecycle of Ich, that I am not going to get into. There is a free swimming stage in the life cycle of Ich. However, unless EVERY individual parasite passes through the UV sterilizer this method is not viable. I'm sure it can aid the fish, but to me its just a possible band-aid.
I am open for disputes on my comment. That is part of the online forum, to get information straight. I am commenting merely on my experience in exception to just the UV sterilizer. I have tried every method to treat it, its very possible for people to have different experiences. However, I think for anyone to comment on issues it should make sense that they have 120% certainty in what they are saying. I just don't think people have that assurance when they say "I fed garlic, my fish has never got Ich since than." Ich also attaches to the inside of the fishes gills which can lead to thinking a infected individual is not infected, yet they are. Higher respiration can be a good indication with an infected individual.
Sorry for the long comment, and typos. I am sure there are plenty of them.
Kworker
Tang Lover
Also, I see a couple things that troubled me in the Original post. You said you are doing meds, and seem to put an emphasis on temperature.
Keep the temperature at normal levels. Temperature should not be used to treat Ich.
I am not sure which meds you are speaking of. I would not do any meds while doing Hypo-salinity especially if it is Cu. Bring the salinity down to 1.009 as well, you will absolutely not have a hard time keeping it at 1.009 in a 55 either. Just check it every day and top off a little bit.
Keep the temperature at normal levels. Temperature should not be used to treat Ich.
I am not sure which meds you are speaking of. I would not do any meds while doing Hypo-salinity especially if it is Cu. Bring the salinity down to 1.009 as well, you will absolutely not have a hard time keeping it at 1.009 in a 55 either. Just check it every day and top off a little bit.
Adam Baggett
Active Member
So you have 2 of us saying the same thing, the trick here is to take your time with this and do not do too much at the same time. I have kept saltwater fish tanks for over 20 years now and seen them progress to where they are today. I am looking forward to the next 20 years.
Here is a great site if you want to know more about Ich. Marine Ich
Good luck and keep us posted.
Here is a great site if you want to know more about Ich. Marine Ich
Good luck and keep us posted.
polancoeddie
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Thanks for the advice. I was going to do it all at once. Bring up the temperature to 82. Drop the salinity down to 1.09 and treat it with meds called instant ocean lifeguard. The meds got good reviews online. But I'll take your advice.
polancoeddie
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I think I'm going to have to return my gold head sleeper goby because he is not eating. He usually eat what ever is in the sand but with no sand in the QT he won't it anything. I do not want to place a lot of food in their because the tank is not cycled. If you see the picture of the goby his stomach is sunk in. His body is slightly bent. Don't know what to do. He won't brine shrimp ether. He usually goes for it but not any more.
Adam Baggett
Active Member
Return? FS won't take anything back while you have Ich. Try putting a small plastic plant pot saucer in there with some sand from your tank. About an inch will do. Yes I know I know I said bare bottom but it will help him and the meds will (should) kill anything bad. Then throw the sand away when done.
Adam Baggett
Active Member
An inch deep that is sorry for not adding that.
Adam Baggett
Active Member
I had a Pink Spot Watchman Goby when I had Ich and I did that for him. He lived and was rid of Ich.
polancoeddie
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I can't get my ammonia down. My fishes are still in the quarantine tank. It was never cycled. I'm doing a 50% water change ever other day. I just did one now but the water is reading .25ppm. They have no signs of ich. I feel like placing them back in their tank before they die. It's been 2 1/2 weeks since i took them out of my main tank. I'm not 100% sure that they even had ich in the first place. I only saw some white spots on 1 fish and it went away after 2 days in the quarantine tank.
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