If we think equipment prices are high . .. . . . .

[Blue Spot Octopus]

I remember in the 2000's people were buying nice German equipment in the US and having it shipped back to the EU. it was cheaper than buying there, no VAT tax, there money was almost a 2 for 1 special. Skimmers back then vwere easily 400 to 900 dollars. Funny I a receipt on my desk and I was using it to write down numbers. It was for a I-Tech 200 skimmer for 400 dollars back in 2009.

 

[Notsolostfish]

I dont see the gear we buy as an investment. More as something to keep me away from
Depression.

 

[Derrick0580]

I dont see the gear we buy as an investment. More as something to keep me away from
Depression.

That is the definition of an investment into your mental health buddy!

 

[affan]

I think it will depend on what consumers are willing to spend. The manufacturers have great marketing through social media. I never see an Ecotech commercial on regular tv for example, but many instagram and youtubers have sponsorships with them. This creates an illusion that success can only happen with their products, imo. It would be nice to see a manufacturer make less expensive tiers of their products.

Agree with you... consumer willingness to spend drives the market. The emphasis on social media marketing influences perceptions...

 

[amoore311]

After 19 years in the hobby, it seems the entire industry is designed around extracting as much money as possible from new hobbyists, in the 18ish months they tend to stay in the hobby. And about pushing consumables with impossible to substantiate claims (coral foods, amino supplements, etc).

It's a big part of why I hardly ever post in this forum anymore. The ads and the constant multi page live sale threads are a joke. It's about the money, not about advancing knowledge within the hobby anymore.

I use Instant Ocean Salt, Noopysche Lights, Jebao Wavemakers and Returns, AliExpress Led bars, DIY Frozen Food, and the only coral food I feed is fish poop.

My current 3 year old sps system is thriving, there are no limitations on my system that the brands that are 2-4x more expensive would alleviate.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

It's about the money, not about advancing knowledge within the hobby anymore.

I beg to differ on this comment. Look at Ryan from BRS. Yes I know he pushes products but he also does lengthy in house testing. Have you seen the 10 part series on the ugly stage? He also spoke for over an hour about the testing and how much info is out there and given enough time he's hoping with all the ICP testing and bio diversity being saved as info for the future. I personally welcome if a company would come out with a bottle of everything in the biodome. Pour it into the tank and instant success! Am I dreaming? Right now I am lol but I'm sure given enough time it'll happen (fingers crossed)

But as for products I do agree alot is a money grab. I love the idea on buying once not twice and I'm guilty of that.

Anyways did you see Fragbox is selling products that he has no control over pricing because Apature group ie ecotec. He's fed up with it and if you want a deal on anything just shoot him an email.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

After 19 years in the hobby, it seems the entire industry is designed around extracting as much money as possible from new hobbyists, in the 18ish months they tend to stay in the hobby. And about pushing consumables with impossible to substantiate claims (coral foods, amino supplements, etc).

It's a big part of why I hardly ever post in this forum anymore. The ads and the constant multi page live sale threads are a joke. It's about the money, not about advancing knowledge within the hobby anymore.

I use Instant Ocean Salt, Noopysche Lights, Jebao Wavemakers and Returns, AliExpress Led bars, DIY Frozen Food, and the only coral food I feed is fish poop.

My current 3 year old sps system is thriving, there are no limitations on my system that the brands that are 2-4x more expensive would alleviate.

have a build thread or tank pics?

 

[amoore311]

have a build thread or tank pics?

CaptainCharisma311 on instagram.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

CaptainCharisma311 on instagram.

I'll see, maybe... wish it was on here

 

[amoore311]

I beg to differ on this comment. Look at Ryan from BRS. Yes I know he pushes products but he also does lengthy in house testing. Have you seen the 10 part series on the ugly stage? He also spoke for over an hour about the testing and how much info is out there and given enough time he's hoping with all the ICP testing and bio diversity being saved as info for the future. I personally welcome if a company would come out with a bottle of everything in the biodome. Pour it into the tank and instant success! Am I dreaming? Right now I am lol but I'm sure given enough time it'll happen (fingers crossed)

But as for products I do agree alot is a money grab. I love the idea on buying once not twice and I'm guilty of that.

Anyways did you see Fragbox is selling products that he has no control over pricing because Apature group ie ecotec. He's fed up with it and if you want a deal on anything just shoot him an email.

I was one of bulk reef supplies first customers. I was buying Maxijets modded with model boat props to use for wave makers in my system, back when BRS was Two Part Solution.com

I'm not getting into specific vendors so my posts get censored. Everyone in this industry knows each other on the business end, and they are all guilty of the pox of stupidly priced equipment and useless supplements in this hobby now adays.

The faster you understand the answer to your problems isn't coming from a bottle, the better off you will be. That applies aquariums, and life in general.

Edit: Everything BRS Tests, is backed with the purpose they are selling you something, that is it. Whether is algae barn pods, icp tests, $980 light fixtures, etc etc. It's marketing dressed in a cheap lab coat.

 

[amoore311]

I'll see, maybe... wish it was on here

there's a couple older pictures on the local regional forums. You can find them if you put my username in the search on Reef2Reef.

Sorry I very rarely post anymore, its one of the slowest days of the year here today at the office so I am trying to burn time lol.

 

[PeterErc]

I was one of bulk reef supplies first customers. I was buying Maxijets modded with model boat props to use for wave makers in my system, back when BRS was Two Part Solution.com

I'm not getting into specific vendors so my posts get censored. Everyone in this industry knows each other on the business end, and they are all guilty of the pox of stupidly priced equipment and useless supplements in this hobby now adays.

The faster you understand the answer to your problems isn't coming from a bottle, the better off you will be. That applies aquariums, and life in general.

Edit: Everything BRS Tests, is backed with the purpose they are selling you something, that is it. Whether is algae barn pods, icp tests, $980 light fixtures, etc etc. It's marketing dressed in a cheap lab coat.

Ahh! Two part solution and Randy’s recipe. As a business, BRS did very well for themselves. Remember when if you left some fake ssa reviews they offered a better price, and or for group buys. That is when my business ended with them. Peladow and Soda ash became my drug of choice

 

[ingchr1]

...I personally welcome if a company would come out with a bottle of everything in the biodome. Pour it into the tank and instant success!...

Doesn't this already exist, packaged in live rock and sand?

 

[AP Fishkeeper]

I'd argue while the technology has significantly increased, prices of equipment have for the most part stayed relatively flat or even decreased. For example, a less expensive, entry level metal halide such as a CoraLife Aqualight 150 watt HQI would have set you back about $300 on Foster & Smith back around 2011. That doesn't include the cost of a new bulb (around $50) at least once a year. Today, the cost for a completely controllable AI Prime HD is about $265 when not on sale. Add about $30 for the mounting arm, and its still less expensive than the Aqualight metal halide. Over 5 years, the metal halide will cost at least $550 considering bulb changes while AI Prime will incur not more expenses so the total cost is still less than $300. Now we can debate the effectiveness of LED vs. Metal Halide in regards to growth rates and color, but generally one can be at least as successful in maintaining high-light requirement corals in an aquarium with quality LED fixture like an AI Prime and the AI Prime is undeniably a significant technological advance from any metal halide available a decade ago. I'd argue the same could be said of most equipment such as pumps, skimmers, etc.. Particularly when factoring in inflation, prices aren't all that different, or are even less expensive, than they were a decade ago, while the technology has evolved and gotten much better.

The one thing I will admit has significantly increased is glass fish tanks, but I'd point out generally the quality on those has also improved significantly.

It also should be noted that there are some products that have become standard that were not even available a decade ago and this may increase the overall cost of an aquarium, but I'd credit some of these innovations with the significantly increased success rates in long term keeping of individual aquarium systems.

The one thing that hasn't changed in decades: aquarium hobbyists complaining about prices!

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I'd argue while the technology has significantly increased, prices of equipment have for the most part stayed relatively flat or even decreased. For example, a less expensive, entry level metal halide such as a CoraLife Aqualight 150 watt HQI would have set you back about $300 on Foster & Smith back around 2011. That doesn't include the cost of a new bulb (around $50) at least once a year. Today, the cost for a completely controllable AI Prime HD is about $265 when not on sale. Add about $30 for the mounting arm, and its still less expensive than the Aqualight metal halide. Over 5 years, the metal halide will cost at least $550 considering bulb changes while AI Prime will incur not more expenses so the total cost is still less than $300. Now we can debate the effectiveness of LED vs. Metal Halide in regards to growth rates and color, but generally one can be at least as successful in maintaining high-light requirement corals in an aquarium with quality LED fixture like an AI Prime and the AI Prime is undeniably a significant technological advance from any metal halide available a decade ago. I'd argue the same could be said of most equipment such as pumps, skimmers, etc.. Particularly when factoring in inflation, prices aren't all that different, or are even less expensive, than they were a decade ago, while the technology has evolved and gotten much better.

The one thing I will admit has significantly increased is glass fish tanks, but I'd point out generally the quality on those has also improved significantly.

It also should be noted that there are some products that have become standard that were not even available a decade ago and this may increase the overall cost of an aquarium, but I'd credit some of these innovations with the significantly increased success rates in long term keeping of individual aquarium systems.

The one thing that hasn't changed in decades: aquarium hobbyists complaining about prices!

ai primes are only 55w... far from a 150w MH

 

[sfin52]

Many of us especially very long timers have seen pricing evolve from very affordable to exorbitant. We old timers have seen Metal Halides, the evolution of LED starting with Marineland LED at affordable costs to now $600-$900 lights. This is one component of the cost of Reefing. We now see Algae scrubbers at $600, Skimmers at $500-800 and Sumps at $500-$700

What does everyone believe will be the costs of essential items such as lighting , water flow, sumps, tanks, skimmers and such?
Do you also see our equipment going completely WiFi ?

I have near $5000 in Orpheks and there is no way if I go to sell them used that I will recover half of that, making it a high depreciation item? Our equipment investments may not be investments Afterall.

Kiss. Diy is the way to go. T5 are looking more and more affordable everyday. With the cost of led thats 10 yrs of bulb replacements.

 

[Harpo]

My motto is buy used high quality equipment from members with high post count. Otherwise be patient and wait for black Friday sales

 

[amoore311]

I'd argue while the technology has significantly increased, prices of equipment have for the most part stayed relatively flat or even decreased. For example, a less expensive, entry level metal halide such as a CoraLife Aqualight 150 watt HQI would have set you back about $300 on Foster & Smith back around 2011. That doesn't include the cost of a new bulb (around $50) at least once a year. Today, the cost for a completely controllable AI Prime HD is about $265 when not on sale. Add about $30 for the mounting arm, and its still less expensive than the Aqualight metal halide. Over 5 years, the metal halide will cost at least $550 considering bulb changes while AI Prime will incur not more expenses so the total cost is still less than $300. Now we can debate the effectiveness of LED vs. Metal Halide in regards to growth rates and color, but generally one can be at least as successful in maintaining high-light requirement corals in an aquarium with quality LED fixture like an AI Prime and the AI Prime is undeniably a significant technological advance from any metal halide available a decade ago. I'd argue the same could be said of most equipment such as pumps, skimmers, etc.. Particularly when factoring in inflation, prices aren't all that different, or are even less expensive, than they were a decade ago, while the technology has evolved and gotten much better.

The one thing I will admit has significantly increased is glass fish tanks, but I'd point out generally the quality on those has also improved significantly.

It also should be noted that there are some products that have become standard that were not even available a decade ago and this may increase the overall cost of an aquarium, but I'd credit some of these innovations with the significantly increased success rates in long term keeping of individual aquarium systems.

The one thing that hasn't changed in decades: aquarium hobbyists complaining about prices!

You see this is part of the problem. In no way shape or form is an AI prime, which will cook the lense and need to be replaced in a matter of months, comparable to a 150 watt metal halide.

That is a borderline laughable comparison, that led lighting manufacturers have been trying to push since the GEN1 Radion.