PAR meter is best. LUX meter in a larger zip-lock bag is better than nothing... you have to do some math and correct for light types, but it is better than guessing.
I'm brand new to lighting, what should I know before starting out?
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To summarize the video, Tullio talks about tools that measure light and how they are not made for the entire spectrum that coral need, but are made for human eyesight and general light. This is a subset of what corals need. All claims that LEDs are more efficient only use a very narrow band of light that a LUX meter (usually) will capture - when using this narrow band, a LED puts out more light, but when using a more comprehensive meter, then the other types of light are the same, if not a bit more. This narrative is common with LED manufacturers since it makes their products look good and more powerful. Then, he talks about how even a really good PAR meter is better than a LUX meter, but still only captures some of the spectrum.
He spends some time talking about how a wide range of light is necessary for the most ideal growth, and not just light in the visible range (400 to 700nm).
If you take nothing else away from this video, remember that no light is more efficient than another - they are all really, really close. Also, that full spectrum from about 350 to 850nm is helpful to nearly all coral, even if some can do Ok with cut spectrum. Anybody that talks about energy savings when going from one type to the next was using too much of the first kind of light, they did not get a more efficient kind of light - you see this with people who replaced 3x400w halides over their 180g tank with 3x 160-185w Radions, for example, then they could have used 3x150w Halides and done the same same thing... choices and knowledge are the difference here, not efficiency.
Put it on your list to watch again in 6 months and it will probably be crystal clear.
He spends some time talking about how a wide range of light is necessary for the most ideal growth, and not just light in the visible range (400 to 700nm).
If you take nothing else away from this video, remember that no light is more efficient than another - they are all really, really close. Also, that full spectrum from about 350 to 850nm is helpful to nearly all coral, even if some can do Ok with cut spectrum. Anybody that talks about energy savings when going from one type to the next was using too much of the first kind of light, they did not get a more efficient kind of light - you see this with people who replaced 3x400w halides over their 180g tank with 3x 160-185w Radions, for example, then they could have used 3x150w Halides and done the same same thing... choices and knowledge are the difference here, not efficiency.
Put it on your list to watch again in 6 months and it will probably be crystal clear.
Since I'm just starting out for the first time, I was thinking of possibly buying a used, pre-owned lighting system if I can find an extra good deal somewhere. Who or where would be worth checking out for a good or great deal on a used lighting system? What kind of used light system should I keep my eyes open for? Are there some brands (makes) and models to watch for, and others to avoid, for example? How do USA, Japanese, German, China and Taiwan made systems compare?
The discount for used LEDs isn’t really good you might just buy new, the only real discount is that you often get free mounting hardware which is expensive. The are often small enough to get accidentally dunked in tanks without obvious evidence of that happening.
If buying used on the cheap buy MH or T5s you can get the same amount of light for 1/4 or 1/8 the cost.
Who ever said watts of light are equivalent is conceptually wrong but close enough to the truth for most purposes. You get about the same PAR per watt out of Chinese LEDs as T5 and hallide but high end lights are 30-40% more efficient. It’s 70ish lumes per watt for small hallides, 80 for T5ho and 130 for modern Cree LEDs.
That being said it’s much cheaper to get 150-200 Watts from non led sources. A decent 200w true t5 fixture can be bought used for under 100. 200w of quality LEDs is 700$+
If buying used on the cheap buy MH or T5s you can get the same amount of light for 1/4 or 1/8 the cost.
Who ever said watts of light are equivalent is conceptually wrong but close enough to the truth for most purposes. You get about the same PAR per watt out of Chinese LEDs as T5 and hallide but high end lights are 30-40% more efficient. It’s 70ish lumes per watt for small hallides, 80 for T5ho and 130 for modern Cree LEDs.
That being said it’s much cheaper to get 150-200 Watts from non led sources. A decent 200w true t5 fixture can be bought used for under 100. 200w of quality LEDs is 700$+
Stigigemla
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It is remarkable how different we can learn from a video.
I dont remember I was annoyed at all from the video but some of that Jda writes is totally wrong.
Now I write only of power in and power out.
The " white" leds use blue leds as the light source and a fluorescent coating that converts the light from around 455 nm vawelenght to the emitted spectrum.
The blue leds have an effiacy of over 50% today often up to about 70%
The light is emitted in about 120 degrees wide angle. Mh and T5 emit light all the way around so they need more reflectors.
The best T5 tubes are the UVC and are having about 38% efficiacy and emits 255 nm light.
That light as in all T5 are 255nm (made in the same way) and is converted via a fluorescent coating to the visible spectrum.
But when a photon of 255 nm exites the fluorescent an emitted photon of 510 nm will have ecactly half the energy. Thats wy the effiacy is lower for visible light.
When a photon of 455 nm from a led exits the fluorescent the transfered eneergy could be 455/510 and that is much more.
The best T5 tubes today have an efficiacy of about 18% for visible light.
In lumens it is about 130 per watt. Leds can have 200 lumen per watt.
If I write to ununderstandble ask Sanjay Joshi or Mike Paletta. They know.
I dont remember I was annoyed at all from the video but some of that Jda writes is totally wrong.
Now I write only of power in and power out.
The " white" leds use blue leds as the light source and a fluorescent coating that converts the light from around 455 nm vawelenght to the emitted spectrum.
The blue leds have an effiacy of over 50% today often up to about 70%
The light is emitted in about 120 degrees wide angle. Mh and T5 emit light all the way around so they need more reflectors.
The best T5 tubes are the UVC and are having about 38% efficiacy and emits 255 nm light.
That light as in all T5 are 255nm (made in the same way) and is converted via a fluorescent coating to the visible spectrum.
But when a photon of 255 nm exites the fluorescent an emitted photon of 510 nm will have ecactly half the energy. Thats wy the effiacy is lower for visible light.
When a photon of 455 nm from a led exits the fluorescent the transfered eneergy could be 455/510 and that is much more.
The best T5 tubes today have an efficiacy of about 18% for visible light.
In lumens it is about 130 per watt. Leds can have 200 lumen per watt.
If I write to ununderstandble ask Sanjay Joshi or Mike Paletta. They know.
ReefWithCare
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It depends on what corals you want. But if you want to take out the guesswork just get a viparspectrs or ocean Revive. They don’t have all the fancy crap that other lights have but they will grow everything. You only need a hybrid unit if you plan on an SPS heavy setup.
If you have the budget for the high end stuff - Kessil, API, and AI are good to look at. EcoTech is nice - but likely going to be overkill budget and feature wise for what you want.
There is also an light from a maker called LedZeal that gets a lot of love in Australia but no so much on this forum. You need the correct layout which I can grab from the Aussie forum. Their Zeus model would be similar production of an AI Prime while the Malibu would be comparable to a Hydra or Reefbreeders unit.
If you have the budget for the high end stuff - Kessil, API, and AI are good to look at. EcoTech is nice - but likely going to be overkill budget and feature wise for what you want.
There is also an light from a maker called LedZeal that gets a lot of love in Australia but no so much on this forum. You need the correct layout which I can grab from the Aussie forum. Their Zeus model would be similar production of an AI Prime while the Malibu would be comparable to a Hydra or Reefbreeders unit.
You must not have watched the video, or the part where he explains that Lumens is an incompetent way to measure reef lighting, It starts at about 35 minutes, but here is a snippet of his slide, below. If you use a real tool like a wider range spectrometer, then radiated wattage in the usable range is the same per input watt regardless of the source.
The LEDs are only more "efficient" when using a 555nm meter which ups the curve for just that purpose and is not flat enough for anything other than human general purpose lighting. It is misleading and incorrect. He lays this out pretty well.
You should ask Dr. Joshi... he has written and spoken at length about no power savings when he went to LED. He saves a bit in the summer without running a chiller, but also pays more for heaters in the winter. The light required from 10 XR30 Radions is about the same as the 3x400w halides that he was using before. He has been very open and clear about this.
The LEDs are only more "efficient" when using a 555nm meter which ups the curve for just that purpose and is not flat enough for anything other than human general purpose lighting. It is misleading and incorrect. He lays this out pretty well.
You should ask Dr. Joshi... he has written and spoken at length about no power savings when he went to LED. He saves a bit in the summer without running a chiller, but also pays more for heaters in the winter. The light required from 10 XR30 Radions is about the same as the 3x400w halides that he was using before. He has been very open and clear about this.
ReefWithCare
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I think the OP needs to tell us what he is planning to keep before the discussion goes further.
If the OP says he just wants to keep softies for example --- we are all really just wasting time arguing and throwing up technical videos when he can get a cheapo Fluval Sea 3.0 Marine and be fine vs. him telling us he wants to only keep designer acros
.
@Punchy - Have you determined what budget you are working with? Brand new quality setup for a SW tank will be around $35-$45 a gallon. Keep that in mind with budget and try not to let your eyes get too big for your wallet
If the OP says he just wants to keep softies for example --- we are all really just wasting time arguing and throwing up technical videos when he can get a cheapo Fluval Sea 3.0 Marine and be fine vs. him telling us he wants to only keep designer acros
.@Punchy - Have you determined what budget you are working with? Brand new quality setup for a SW tank will be around $35-$45 a gallon. Keep that in mind with budget and try not to let your eyes get too big for your wallet
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Stigigemla
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I agree that lumens is of little value for reefs.
I used it only where I compared leds and T5 optimised for lumens.
In all the other text I wrote about effiacy in % of power in and power out.
455 nm where we have the best efficiacy leds is in the "best " area of wavelenghts for coral growth.
I guess You didnt read #17 where i wrote about differrent lights for my 410 gallon tank.
I used it only where I compared leds and T5 optimised for lumens.
In all the other text I wrote about effiacy in % of power in and power out.
455 nm where we have the best efficiacy leds is in the "best " area of wavelenghts for coral growth.
I guess You didnt read #17 where i wrote about differrent lights for my 410 gallon tank.
I did read it post #17. Choices. If you can do with 640w of LED, then you never needed 1300w of MH. Switch out to 4x150w of MH (or whatever in the same wattage range) and you can do the same thing. Dr. Joshi says the same thing, since you mentioned him. I do agree that some people used too much light and now have made better choices - I had a friend who used a pair of 400w Radiums over a 55g tank which was just ridiculous.
Whatever is appropriate for a beginner to start out with. Nothing impossible to keep alive.I think the OP needs to tell us what he is planning to keep before the discussion goes further.
If the OP says he just wants to keep softies for example --- we are all really just wasting time arguing and throwing up technical videos when he can get a cheapo Fluval Sea 3.0 Marine and be fine vs. him telling us he wants to only keep designer acros
@Punchy - Have you determined what budget you are working with? Brand new quality setup for a SW tank will be around $35-$45 a gallon. Keep that in mind with budget and try not to let your eyes get too big for your wallet
Mastiffsrule
Where ever you go, there you are, so be nice 2 you
First off, welcome and glad to have you.
Appears you have a great question and some really good answers. There are so many options out there it makes my head spin. I have had all types. Halide, power compacts, VHO, t5, the light before the t5( not sure what it was) and now leds.
I will keep it simple. I have LED but wished I went with t5. Gonna come down to what you want to spend and what you are looking to accomplish.
Appears you have a great question and some really good answers. There are so many options out there it makes my head spin. I have had all types. Halide, power compacts, VHO, t5, the light before the t5( not sure what it was) and now leds.
I will keep it simple. I have LED but wished I went with t5. Gonna come down to what you want to spend and what you are looking to accomplish.
ReefWithCare
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Mushrooms, zoas, leather corals, polyps, photosynthesic gorgorians, etc. All corals that can be run off a plug and play light like a fluval Sea 3.0. They require no dosing. Would work very well if you go for a smaller tank like say 50 gallons or under.
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