I'm not Diatoms, Dino or Hair Algae, what am I?

[EmptyWallet]

Hi Folks,

Sorry to post yet another thread on new tank nuisance algae but I'm struggling with this one a bit.

I started a new tank, put in 'dead rock', cycled and all that fun stuff and started with a single Radion over the centre of the tank. Over time the diatoms came and went and then I got this brown algae (so faded it's almost a white colour). It also grows in my fuge under a Kessil H380 on the glass only. My nitrates were up about 10, phosphate nearly 1 at that point in time.

Fast forward a few months and I put 2 more Radions in on the left and right side. My nitrate is zero (Salifert) and phosphate 0.04 (Hanna). I starved out the algae in question by going dark for 4 days which got rid of it, then as soon as I put the light back on, it came straight back. I've worked relentlessly to scrub the rocks back with a toothbrush, getting rid of most/all of it, only for it to return again in full coverage within a week. BUT it only ever grows in the centre of the tank, the left and right hand side (which were lit up after I got the nitrate/phosphate levels down to near zero) have some diatom/light brown algae as expected but not this stuff.

I don't think it's hair algae because it doesn't present as 'hairs' and if left uncheck can grow ridiculously long, on the back glass I would say its grown about 1 foot long from it's base. It comes off super easy so removal is no problem, just grows back within days (and has for months now).

Any suggestions, ideas? With 'perfect water quality' (nitrate zero, phosphate 0.04, calcium 450, alk 9, mag 1350, salinity 1.022 (low due to introducing fish), ph 8.0.

Is it because the salinity is too low? Ph of 8.0 too low? I stop myself, because it's only effecting the 1.3rd middle of the tank and the fuge suggesting it was caused by an old problem as opposed to current water conditions. All 3 radions are new / run the same schedule etc. I have vortechs on the left and right side, could it be 'lesser flow' in the middle?

 

[Palyzoa]

Hi Folks,

Sorry to post yet another thread on new tank nuisance algae but I'm struggling with this one a bit.

I started a new tank, put in 'dead rock', cycled and all that fun stuff and started with a single Radion over the centre of the tank. Over time the diatoms came and went and then I got this brown algae (so faded it's almost a white colour). It also grows in my fuge under a Kessil H380 on the glass only. My nitrates were up about 10, phosphate nearly 1 at that point in time.

Fast forward a few months and I put 2 more Radions in on the left and right side. My nitrate is zero (Salifert) and phosphate 0.04 (Hanna). I starved out the algae in question by going dark for 4 days which got rid of it, then as soon as I put the light back on, it came straight back. I've worked relentlessly to scrub the rocks back with a toothbrush, getting rid of most/all of it, only for it to return again in full coverage within a week. BUT it only ever grows in the centre of the tank, the left and right hand side (which were lit up after I got the nitrate/phosphate levels down to near zero) have some diatom/light brown algae as expected but not this stuff.

I don't think it's hair algae because it doesn't present as 'hairs' and if left uncheck can grow ridiculously long, on the back glass I would say its grown about 1 foot long from it's base. It comes off super easy so removal is no problem, just grows back within days (and has for months now).

Any suggestions, ideas? With 'perfect water quality' (nitrate zero, phosphate 0.04, calcium 450, alk 9, mag 1350, salinity 1.022 (low due to introducing fish), ph 8.0.

Is it because the salinity is too low? Ph of 8.0 too low? I stop myself, because it's only effecting the 1.3rd middle of the tank and the fuge suggesting it was caused by an old problem as opposed to current water conditions. All 3 radions are new / run the same schedule etc. I have vortechs on the left and right side, could it be 'lesser flow' in the middle?

Lyngbya - Which I believe is a type of cyanobacteria. Nasty stuff. Im not positive tho, look it up and see if it resembles what you are seeing.

 

[EmptyWallet]

Thanks i'll check it out. I'll also get a youtube going of it under white light so it's easier for people to see

 

[kp1991]

Hi Folks,

Sorry to post yet another thread on new tank nuisance algae but I'm struggling with this one a bit.

I started a new tank, put in 'dead rock', cycled and all that fun stuff and started with a single Radion over the centre of the tank. Over time the diatoms came and went and then I got this brown algae (so faded it's almost a white colour). It also grows in my fuge under a Kessil H380 on the glass only. My nitrates were up about 10, phosphate nearly 1 at that point in time.

Fast forward a few months and I put 2 more Radions in on the left and right side. My nitrate is zero (Salifert) and phosphate 0.04 (Hanna). I starved out the algae in question by going dark for 4 days which got rid of it, then as soon as I put the light back on, it came straight back. I've worked relentlessly to scrub the rocks back with a toothbrush, getting rid of most/all of it, only for it to return again in full coverage within a week. BUT it only ever grows in the centre of the tank, the left and right hand side (which were lit up after I got the nitrate/phosphate levels down to near zero) have some diatom/light brown algae as expected but not this stuff.

I don't think it's hair algae because it doesn't present as 'hairs' and if left uncheck can grow ridiculously long, on the back glass I would say its grown about 1 foot long from it's base. It comes off super easy so removal is no problem, just grows back within days (and has for months now).

Any suggestions, ideas? With 'perfect water quality' (nitrate zero, phosphate 0.04, calcium 450, alk 9, mag 1350, salinity 1.022 (low due to introducing fish), ph 8.0.

Is it because the salinity is too low? Ph of 8.0 too low? I stop myself, because it's only effecting the 1.3rd middle of the tank and the fuge suggesting it was caused by an old problem as opposed to current water conditions. All 3 radions are new / run the same schedule etc. I have vortechs on the left and right side, could it be 'lesser flow' in the middle?

Seen it before in the ocean unsure its exact phyla or name but it is and algae for sure that much i do know

 

[kp1991]

Seen it before in the ocean unsure its exact phyla or name but it is and algae for sure that much i do know

Like that brown algae stringy like @ the harbors in tropical areas

 

[EmptyWallet]

that's it, how do I get rid of it?

 

[EmptyWallet]

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[EmptyWallet]

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[mcarroll]

A photo under normal lighting would help. Also with the pumps off.

If you can get a sample under a microscope ($10 and up: Selecting a microscope) even better.

Low salinity and nil nitrates are the two things that jump out at me from the numbers.

Lack of CUC, at least judging from the photos.

With vortechs on the ends, flow may be inadequate too....which exact pumps and what are the tank's dimensions?

Possible too much light compared to the need on top of that? "Too much" can be related to either intensity or photoperiod, or both. Do you know how much PAR or lux your lights are putting on the tank? How long are the lights on?

 

[kp1991]

A photo under normal lighting would help. Also with the pumps off.

If you can get a sample under a microscope ($10 and up: Selecting a microscope) even better.

Low salinity and nil nitrates are the two things that jump out at me from the numbers.

Lack of CUC, at least judging from the photos.

With vortechs on the ends, flow may be inadequate too....which exact pumps and what are the tank's dimensions?

Possible too much light compared to the need on top of that? "Too much" can be related to either intensity or photoperiod, or both. Do you know how much PAR or lux your lights are putting on the tank? How long are the lights on?

I would imagine its rapid growth in your tank is due to high lighting also in the ocean ive never really seen them where theres good circulation might have to bump that up a bit also crabs and other crustys love to eat that stuff it might help to add a few in my opinion

 

[kp1991]

I would imagine its rapid growth in your tank is due to high lighting also in the ocean ive never really seen them where theres good circulation might have to bump that up a bit also crabs and other crustys love to eat that stuff it might help to add a few in my opinion

Yup i stick with crabs that eat it as a safe alternative to rid the problem & lower light output

 

[EmptyWallet]

Thanks guys, really appreciate the input.

Looks like I have a few actions;

Get Salinity up to .026 (is only .021 because I'm introducing new fish and my LFS runs at .020, so it's a pain to ramp up and down the QT salinity for each batch). But if this could be a cause of my issue, i'll start ramping it up slowly over the next week or so.

Flow;
It's an 8x2x2 with 2x MP40's on each end. I would have said the flow is strong (i.e. near 100% the fish struggle to swim and get blown around) but perhaps the duration that I ran 'high flow' isn't enough, I just leave it on the reef crest mode or whatever it's called (the yellow one not lagoon). I've finally got a reeflink coming (they are $300 new in Aus, can you believe it) so I can program different programs to get more 'rapid chaotic flow' during the day when I'm not home to move the dials...

Lighting
I'm using the default EcoTech SPS AB+ program, at 70% intensity, with the whites and reds removed. I 'went blue', 8hr lighting period in an attempt to slow this algae growth. It's possible this change is why the algae hasn't spread beyond the centre area, as the rest of the tank never got the original 100% intensity + white/reds programming. I've got a Seneye to measure PAR, but that is in the QT right now so I can't risk putting it back into the QT right now (ICH shall not pass!)

CUC
I'm an idiot, no excuse I have a zero tolerance policy on this tank for Ich and Aiptasia. I have a whole bunch of premium live rock covered in Corralline Algae in a bucket undergoing a 45 day fallow to avoid introducing ICH cysts, about 2 weeks to go. For the same reason I won't put CUC into the tank until they have gone through 45 days fallow too. My QT has 3 tangs in it. So the plan is to get the Tangs in, then fill QT with more coralline rock pieces + CUC + algae drenched rock from the QT to keep them fed so they can survive the 45 days fallow. Time again I would certainly do the Mature rock and CUC first, fallow 45 days, before introducing fish - live and learn.

On my last tank (10+ years ago), I just dumped a few boxes of Rock that came straight off the reef the day before into my tank, and the fish a few days later - no cycling, no QT, no Ich, no worries - ignorance was truly bliss! Mind you 5 years later, I had at least 100 Aiptasia growing, but that was the only side effect of 'blind reefing' - no doubt I had a lot of luck... The Aiptasia probably came from introduced corals not the original rock...

So yeah, i'll work on getting the salt up, set the lights back to default, get a good photo and a microscope. Photo without flow will be a challenge as the 'alleged algae' will just flop over. In flow you can see the 'tree structure', almost like a sea fan which will help with identification.

I was going to build a DIY vacuum (input pipe attached to a powerhead) and suck it all out relentlessly until the CUC arrive.

Thanks again!

 

[mcarroll]

Get Salinity up to .026 (is only .021 because I'm introducing new fish and my LFS runs at .020, so it's a pain to ramp up and down the QT salinity for each batch).

Drip them up to proper salinity when you get them....don't do it in the QT.

It's an 8x2x2 with 2x MP40's on each end.

Eek. An mp40 is good for flowing a space that's about 24" cubed. Beyond 24" it's pretty weak flow as far as any ability to lift particles and do good. (Corals will definitely be unhappy in the middle, away from the pumps, if corals are a goal. Assuming they are given the lights you're running.)

So if the mp40 is your pump of choice I would add at least two more on the back wall, covering the "dead" space. There are other (better, IMO) options if you aren't married to that pump. (Especially if your userID isn't a misnomer.)

It's not about rapid chaotic modes, BTW. It's about flow velocity. For better or worse, the vortechs are very low-velocity pumps.

I've got a Seneye to measure PAR, but that is in the QT right now so I can't risk putting it back into the QT right now (ICH shall not pass!)

Careful adopting the local phobias as they can inhibit good brain behavior. To wit: your Seneye is easily disinfected via any number of methods. You can download a lux meter app for your phone, etc. Flush that phobia and get us some light readings!

I have a zero tolerance policy on this tank for Ich

Sounds like the phobia is already at work so I hope it's not too late.

So the plan is to get the Tangs in, then fill QT with more coralline rock pieces + CUC + algae drenched rock from the QT to keep them fed so they can survive the 45 days fallow. Time again I would certainly do the Mature rock and CUC first, fallow 45 days, before introducing fish - live and learn.

Putting a fleet of tangs on top of this problem may complicate things – especially since the good rock and CUC are going to be soooooooo delayed due to your stocking strategy.

Something to consider is that you started the last tank too fast and were probably too hands-off in management since the pests got the better of you as the tank aged. (It can be tough, I know...just sayin', not judgin'. )

I'd slow this tank down, get whatever this stuff is under control and THEN take your next steps. And I'd strongly consider re-ordering your strategy just as you suggested...except maybe add corals before fish....and make the groups of animals you add much smaller....ideally add individuals rather than groups. Consider the amount of added stress on your new, immature system when you do "have to" add groups and be sure to react accordingly. (i.e. don't wait 2+ months to add CUC after you add a group of large fish)

As far as "surviving 45 days fallow"....

Don't do anything that your fish have to "survive" IMO.

If you can describe a part of your plan that way, it's not a good part of your overall plan – there's another, better way.

Quarantine
QT is not for surviving, it's for restoring health, constitution and immune function. Almost the only things that matter in QT are observation time, stress reduction and top-quality food items.

If you can manage to feed some live foods, that is a great help too.

(And hopefully you have a nice QT with some naturalistic cover as well as a generous amount of swimming room and a little live rock.....not the typical "prison style" QT that you see around that's mostly just a heater and PVC parts.)

Hospital
A hospital tank – where you place sick fish for treatment – is for surviving. Their immune system is already wrecked if they are actually sick, so that's where medication can make sense and maybe help, giving them a chance to recover, rather that being a setback. It's guaranteed to be a short stay for the fish, for better or worse, so that's where a stark tank setup is more appropriate. (PVC parts, etc)

New Tank

• Start your tank off with live rock, no light (unless there are corals on your live rock). Wait weeks.
• Then add light and a little CUC and wait a few weeks.
• Depending on results, add more CUC and wait some more, manually cleaning as needed since you're the star of the CUC.
• Then add a coral or (less good) a fish and wait some more.
• ...etc, etc until your tank is stocked

There's a lot of waiting and watching in a good new setup.

Go Slow
Rushing your addition of livestock is bad for lots of reasons, but one of the biggies is that it causes the amount of nutrients you put in the tank to go up too fast. As a result you end up causing problems for yourself like algae outbreaks. Even disease outbreaks are going to be more likely and more severe.

Going slow, on the other hand, allows you TONS more time for observation and therefore more time to correct problems before they get out of control....and therefore the problems that do happen, happen with less livestock in the tank too.

Win-win, across the board. ;Happy

I was going to build a DIY vacuum (input pipe attached to a powerhead) and suck it all out relentlessly until the CUC arrive.

That sounds like a lot of work, but if you can't alter your strategy (as suggested) then it should do the trick!!

You might do better with a regular siphon on a smaller-diameter hose though...≤1/2"...some folks even use airline tubing.

Typically the problem is the removal of too much water while you go after all the little bits of algae.

 

[EmptyWallet]

Thanks for the detailed response.

I didn't think I was rushing it, the tank ran for 3 months before adding 9 small chromis (the tank + sump is 300 gallons), then 2 months before the Moorish Idol (rescue, long story) and will be 2 months gap before the Tangs. I have the smallest you can get yellow & purple tang + a blue tang about the size of my thumbnail going in soon, the 3 of them struggle to eat half a cube of food. I grouped the Tangs together to avoid aggression by adding 'juveniles' together.

Definitely a huge mistake not putting the CUC in as soon as turning on the lights for sure. I also wonder whether dead rock was worth the hassle I'm now facing algae wise...

As for ICH prevention being a phobia, I imagine thousands would disagree, but i'm not experienced enough to have that debate!

I thought about disinfecting the Seneye, but not sure what any chemical/even vinegar might do to the 'sensitive' ph/ammonia slide. Appreciate the risk is ridiculously low that a cyst happens to attach to the slide itself inside the monitor, 1 : 1 billion territory perhaps...

 

[mcarroll]

I also wonder whether dead rock was worth the hassle I'm now facing algae wise...

Some folks seem to have luck with it...but I suspect they are doing some things differently from most.

If you have live rock available – use it!

I might've waited that 3 months even with good live rock....it's possible that 3 months wasn't enough for your tank with dry rock.

 

[blackizzz]

I have something very, very similar in my tank, but in my case (I'm pretty sure) it's nutrition-starved bryopsis, as it at first had a deeper green-brown color that later turned this white-brown hue. Growth pattern looks to be the same.

I introduced a blue tux urchin and after the algae turned white'ish, it began munching away, almost all gone by now.

 

[EmptyWallet]

Thanks i'll keep that in mind. Mine is growing ridiculously now, almost looks like a sea fan!

 

[blackizzz]

What I did was take a pair of scissors and cut em off as low as possible, which seemed to make 'em more appetising to the CUC. Also tried scrubbing them off with a toothbrush, but they returned pretty quickly after that weirdly enough.

 

[EmptyWallet]

This algae looks like Bryopsis up close BUT is light brown not green and looks like it's struggling to be healthy.

I had a go of syphoning it out, leaves bottom 5% behind which is like mowing the grass in spring! or giving it a haircut, just encouraging aggressive grow back.

I'm trying to find a blue tuxedo as they sound perfect and have great reviews. Best of all the claim is urchins cant carry ich cycts (still paranoid ) so if I can get one it can go straight in

 

[kp1991]

This algae looks like Bryopsis up close BUT is light brown not green and looks like it's struggling to be healthy.

I had a go of syphoning it out, leaves bottom 5% behind which is like mowing the grass in spring! or giving it a haircut, just encouraging aggressive grow back.

I'm trying to find a blue tuxedo as they sound perfect and have great reviews. Best of all the claim is urchins cant carry ich cycts (still paranoid ) so if I can get one it can go straight in

Like i said some crabs brah im telling you throw 5 or so in there that algae will be gone and afterwards if you dont want them in there take em out and relocate them but im positive it will work i got rock crabs in my tank right now eating the crap outta my green algae issue proven results in the aquarium and in the wild