Interceptor, Ivermectin, & Coral Boring Spionid Worms.

Reefahholic

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Hello…

I have been experimenting with different treatment options for Coral Boring Spionid Worms. I did not realize there was a worm that could tick me off more than Vermetid snails. When I finally kept the Vermetid’s out (100%), I’m so blessed to discover these little devils.

Pic unknown:
IMG_1297.jpeg


However, all is not lost. If they are in the base there seems to be very minimal damage other than being unsightly. I’ve never been a fan of worms or snails coming up through the base of a beautiful acro. It really destroys the pictures. To be quite honest, it looks like crap. What starts as one worm will likely turn into many over time depending on nutrient levels and feeds.

IMG_0303.jpeg


If the worms make it into the skeleton the damage can be much more severe. Over time it can completely stunt a smaller frag or mini colony.

Pic unknown:
IMG_6101.png


Some will quit basing or growing. Others may loose PE. Small frags and smaller mini colonies suffer the most. Large colonies seem to tolerate better or be less affected. It may still slow growth somewhat or eventually stop growth if the infestation becomes more widespread.

I’ve been able to kill them with 1% Ivermectin, but I don’t believe this is a good option for in-tank treatment’s. It’s a bit harsh on some of the biodiversity, but very mild on the Acro’s themselves from what I’ve observed.

A dose of about 6 drops (via 1cc syringe) to 473 mL (1/8th of a gallon tank water) for about 45 minutes to 1 hour seems to kill them pretty well. Great as a dip for affected incoming frags or as a preventative.

—————————————————-

I’d like to move on to experimental Interceptor “in-tank treatments” with “Milbemycin Oxime” only as the Interceptor-Plus also contains “Praziquantel” which I do not think is needed and only makes the treatment more risky. Many have used Interceptor in the past for a lot of different bugs with good success and minimal issues. Of course die off will occur, but there are ways to minimize that.

Here’s what I’ve come up with so far. These are different doses used to give us a better understanding as to what a system is able to tolerate, and where some of us can start. I’m looking for a lower “standard dose”, but one that will get the job done.

Interceptor dose:

This appears to be one of the most standard doses after speaking with many old school veterans:

1 large dog tablet (23mg per tablet) per 400/G.


It’s advised to turn off Skimmer and UV. Remove GAC. Treat 3 consecutive weeks. (Special circumstances and different durations apply to these above. This is not a complete list, or an exact description. These are just general things I’ve heard.)


What does Interceptor kill?

Many Crustaceans such as shrimp, crabs, barnacles, etc. A significant amount of pods may die, but if the dose is standard, people report 50% or less. Higher doses kill a larger percentage. Pods seem to bounce back quickly though. Peanut worms weren’t affected. About 75% of bristle worms may die. Several have claimed all of their blue leg hermits died (remove all hermits if possible). Also consider fish like Mandarin Dragonet’s that rely on pods to survive. Basically, move anything sensitive to another tank that you want to keep, but also to prevent or minimize a nutrient, ammonia, or Alk spike. One guy reported his nutrients dropped (Reef Squad member I believe), but he stated alkalinity remained about the same with no significant impact.


[Caution advised for dose below]
This was a higher dose that was recommended from a fish vet. The dose he recommended was 75mg per 30/G which sounds a bit potent to me (at least to start maybe). He said to leave it in the system for 6 hrs. I think a lower dose would be better tolerated. That’s just a guess.

Other doses:

Red bugs: (1) 23mg tablet per 400/G

White/Gray/Black bugs: (6-7) 23mg tablets per 400/G.

—————————————————

Again these are just some notes I’ve gathered tonight, and I’m looking for any opinions, thoughts, experiences, experts, etc. With your help, maybe we can determine a safe and effective dose that could help us all battle different bugs, worms, and snails. I’m not saying there isn’t one out there or that you don’t have one already, but the doses kinda seem to be all over the place which is why I’m seeking more information and feedback. I’ve already talked to about 1/2 the reefers tagged below, but for those of you I haven’t talked to plz let me know what dose has worked for you or anything that needs to be considered.

Some of these pests will drive you mad, and if you have acro’s. We’re very limited on what you can do as far as in-tank treatments go. I do understand that most pests are best left alone, but these have really ticked me off. So I’m all in now. I want them gone.

So yeah, please let me know if there’s anything you’d like to add, thoughts about dosing, special considerations, etc.
 
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Sisterlimonpot

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I'm a week into an interceptor treatment, although my dosing is a bit on the strong side, I'm dosing one large pill (dogs 51-100lbs) per 100g.

I have a Tort that has these spionid worms on it.

I haven't looked to see if it did any damage to them. I'll pull out the meso scope tomorrow to see if this strong dose did some damage.
 
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I'm a week into an interceptor treatment, although my dosing is a bit on the strong side, I'm dosing one large pill (dogs 51-100lbs) per 100g.

I have a Tort that has these spionid worms on it.

I haven't looked to see if it did any damage to them. I'll pull out the meso scope tomorrow to see if this strong dose did some damage.

It should get them within a few days no problem. I don’t think anybody really knows a perfect dose. I’ve heard some are doing 3x the normal dose now which is basically close to your dose. Definitely update on your progress. If you can update us on what exactly dies, spikes, and all the juicy details that would be really helpful. Are you treating specifically for the Spionid’s or bugs?


Also, let us know if it kills the Vermetid snails. Apparently, most snails are able tolerate interceptor. I know during the Ivermectin treatment the stomatella snails died about 15-30 minutes in, but so did all the pods. It’s a little harsh to do in-tank treatment I believe. Wish I had a few Vermetid to experiment on. Anyway, thx for the reply. I’m really looking forward to playing with some interceptor. I’m hoping that I don’t nuke all the corals. :)
 

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Alright, I pulled out my meso scope

20231102_094213.jpg


I dosed last Friday (6 days ago), 3 pills (69mg total) to 350g total tank volume. Roughly 0.20mg per gallon.

Here's a couple shots of the spionid worms seemingly unaffected by the 1st treatment.

20231102_093830.jpg


20231102_093833.jpg


I plan to do a 2nd dose tomorrow. And I'll try to video what they do when the interceptor hits the water.

That should give us a glimpse of how they react, do they retreat into the coral protecting them from the treatment? Or are they simply not effected by milbemycin oxime.
 

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Alright, I pulled out my meso scope

20231102_094213.jpg


I dosed last Friday (6 days ago), 3 pills (69mg total) to 350g total tank volume. Roughly 0.20mg per gallon.

Here's a couple shots of the spionid worms seemingly unaffected by the 1st treatment.

20231102_093830.jpg


20231102_093833.jpg


I plan to do a 2nd dose tomorrow. And I'll try to video what they do when the interceptor hits the water.

That should give us a glimpse of how they react, do they retreat into the coral protecting them from the treatment? Or are they simply not effected by milbemycin oxime.
You’ll need 4 pills for 100G to impact the spionids. All of my spionids disappeared after a series 3 treatments of 2 pills for my 50g cube
 

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You’ll need 4 pills for 100G to impact the spionids. All of my spionids disappeared after a series 3 treatments of 2 pills for my 50g cube
Talk to me about the risk of dosing this much. And the procedures involved. Are you conducting a large waterchanges afterwards? Or are you allowing it to dissipate on its own?

I do have a lot of milbemycin oxime to do this, but I'm not comfortable being the guinea pig for such a high dose.
 
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Alright, I pulled out my meso scope

20231102_094213.jpg


I dosed last Friday (6 days ago), 3 pills (69mg total) to 350g total tank volume. Roughly 0.20mg per gallon.

Here's a couple shots of the spionid worms seemingly unaffected by the 1st treatment.

20231102_093830.jpg


20231102_093833.jpg


I plan to do a 2nd dose tomorrow. And I'll try to video what they do when the interceptor hits the water.

That should give us a glimpse of how they react, do they retreat into the coral protecting them from the treatment? Or are they simply not effected by milbemycin oxime.

I know it works because Adam got them with it. He used the Plus version with Praziquantel. That is mind blowing that 3 pills didn’t get them. How was the solubility of the pills?

Maybe that fish vet was right. It might take a 75mg dose to about 30/G. Hmm. This is depressing. I hope they start dying soon because if the dose needs to be that high it will be expensive.
 
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You’ll need 4 pills for 100G to impact the spionids. All of my spionids disappeared after a series 3 treatments of 2 pills for my 50g cube

There’s hope!! Did you try a lower dose first, or just went aggressive from the start?

That’s 92mg per 100/G. Did you notice a lot of die off? Any Acro’s get upset?
 
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I wanna link a few things below to help us zero in:

Thread from R2R back in 2008:

Also, here’s the fish vet recommended dose given to @Acroporaguy
IMG_1315.jpeg





Also, does anybody know Dustin at ORA? @jda

I would like to get his dose. He knows the safe dose if you have clams.

IMG_1326.jpeg



Here’s another thread from here at R2R back in 2020

 
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Talk to me about the risk of dosing this much. And the procedures involved. Are you conducting a large waterchanges afterwards? Or are you allowing it to dissipate on its own?

I do have a lot of milbemycin oxime to do this, but I'm not comfortable being the guinea pig for such a high dose.

I hear a lot of the coral farmers are using higher doses for bugs with good results. This was also done back 10-15 years ago.

See these doses below. This was off a RC thread:

Other doses:

White, Gray, & Black bugs: (6-7) 23mg tablets per 400/G. That’s 138mg - 161mg per 400/G.

Still not even close to what that fish vet recommends at 75mg per 30/G. That’s a extremely high dose, but He said only leave it in for 6 hrs.

As far as water changes it appears that some where doing them and some weren’t. I’d think it would probably be beneficial, but who knows. The medication might degrade quickly with light or time. For sure I’d go ahead and run some carbon afterwards to try and get the pod population back up.


@Charlie’s Frags seems to be doing frequent treatments. He should be able to provide some solid information. He got a lot of SPS also.
 

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I hear a lot of the coral farmers are using higher doses for bugs with good results. This was also done back 10-15 years ago.

See these doses below. This was off a RC thread:

Other doses:

White, Gray, & Black bugs: (6-7) 23mg tablets per 400/G. That’s 138mg - 161mg per 400/G.

Still not even close to what that fish vet recommends at 75mg per 30/G. That’s a extremely high dose, but He said only leave it in for 6 hrs.

As far as water changes it appears that some where doing them and some weren’t. I’d think it would probably be beneficial, but who knows. The medication might degrade quickly with light or time. For sure I’d go ahead and run some carbon afterwards to try and get the pod population back up.


@Charlie’s Frags seems to be doing frequent treatments. He should be able to provide some solid information. He got a lot of SPS also.
I do 2 pills/50g anytime I add new corals bc the dips do not kill the white/brown/black bugs. No carbon and no uv and remove the skimmer cup. I usually just leave the interceptor in for 48 hours. I then put my skimmer cup back on and that’s about it. Sometimes I’ll add some carbon but I usually don’t. Ive never seen any issues with fish, corals, snails or my urchins. It will wipe out all of your shrimp and crabs and will kill a bunch of pods and bristle worms. Vermatids will, unfortunately, be unaffected but interceptor the only thing I can think of that wiped out all of spionid worms. Something also wiped out all of my asterina stars but I don’t think it was interceptor bc they never seemed to affected before until recently. I do split up the dose by a couple hours because that much particulate at once will temporarily irritate some acros but nothing serious.
 
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I do 2 pills/50g anytime I add new corals bc the dips do not kill the white/brown/black bugs. No carbon and no uv and remove the skimmer cup. I usually just leave the interceptor in for 48 hours. I then put my skimmer cup back on and that’s about it. Sometimes I’ll add some carbon but I usually don’t. Ive never seen any issues with fish, corals, snails or my urchins. It will wipe out all of your shrimp and crabs and will kill a bunch of pods and bristle worms. Vermatids will, unfortunately, be unaffected but interceptor the only thing I can think of that wiped out all of spionid worms. Something also wiped out all of my asterina stars but I don’t think it was interceptor bc they never seemed to affected before until recently. I do split up the dose by a couple hours because that much particulate at once will temporarily irritate some acros but nothing serious.

I think I will follow your method, but go 1/2 the dose for my 100/G system.

Prior to dosing:
I will remove the skimmer cup.
Remove GAC.
I’m not running UV.

1st Week:
I will start with 2 tablets (46mg). I’ll dose the tablets a few hours apart as you said unless I can get it to mix clear beforehand. I’ll put the skimmer cup back on after 48 hrs. Then document and watch the worms for those 7 days.

2nd Week:
I will try 4 tablets (92mg) if I don’t see any worms die. Then document and watch the worms for 7 days.

3rd Week:
I will continue 4 tablets (92mg) if I see the worms dying with that dose. If not, I will increase the dose to 6 tablets (138mg). Then document and watch the worms for 7 more days.

After the treatment is complete:
I will deploy some fresh GAC, and do a 20-30% water change. Then continue to document for the next week or two.

Charlie, how is the solubility of these tablets. Just to confirm, you’re using the classic Interceptor correct? The large dog tablet that “only” contains 23mg of “Milbemycin Oxime” correct? No Praziquantel.


I think I will wait for @Sisterlimonpot to gather more data first before I start.

Hopefully she can keep ramping the dose up weekly as she documents any changes or die off with the Spionid worms. Her pics are very clear and she indeed has the exact species I have. The truth is that most people have them, but nobody really knows.
 

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