Is a skimmer really necessary?

[Biokabe]

I know the answer, and that it's no. And I think I might be at the point where I feel comfortable pulling mine... but I think I need the hive mind to convince me it's ok.

At the start of December I had a near-complete tank crash while swapping out my Reefer 350 for my new tank. Since then, my skimmer has overflowed continuously whenever it's been on. I've tried all the standard fixes at this point - cleaning it, changing the elevation, doing water changes, allowing it to overflow, draining the skimmate into a bucket while replacing the water it pulls out. Doesn't matter, it just overflows in about 1-2 minutes.

So it's mostly been off since the tank swap and... my tank hasn't really noticed a difference. I have a refugium and an ATS. My rock (mixture of live and dry) is 5-6 years mature at this point. There is some algae, but it's mostly controlled with my CUC and my foxface. Last time I measured, nitrates were at 5.8 ppm (which is lower than they had been), and phosphates were at 1.0 ppm (which is high, yes, but actually lower than where my tank has been hanging out). And my pH runs between 8.1 and 8.5.

By everything I can measure, it looks like the skimmer is kind of redundant at this point, and I could probably remove it from the tank and free up that outlet and the space in the sump for something else. Is there something I'm missing or overlooking here, or should I just bite the bullet, pull the plug (literally) and take it out?

 

[js-3Design]

A skimmer is just liks all filtration a tool to help clean the water. There is no necessary piece of filtration..

Although i do believe that 1.0 po4 is really high.
You could prolong the amount of hours your refuge is on and just dose nitrates.

A lot of aquariums do run without skimmer.

But at some point, with a heavier bioload you do want to extract organic waste before it breaks down into po4.

And about your skimmer. Is the air hose partially blocked? That why it can overflow. Had this problem and couldn't find the source for a while:)

 

[JTP424]

If your system is healthy with it partially off...
Maybe run it on a timer? Every other day...
Or if it is off off for a longer period... remove it... give it a cleaning.. and then if your system starts having issues drop it back in :)

 

[luffy]

A skimmer is just liks all filtration a tool to help clean the water. There is no necessary piece of filtration..

Although i do believe that 1.0 po4 is really high.
You could prolong the amount of hours your refuge is on and just dose nitrates.

A lot of aquariums do run without skimmer.

But at some point, with a heavier bioload you do want to extract organic waste before it breaks down into po4.

And about your skimmer. Is the air hose partially blocked? That why it can overflow. Had this problem and couldn't find the source for a while:)

If i read right, nitrates will then turn into phosphates? I still am learning on the correct levels for nitrates and po4 abd want to know when would you dose nitrates and all that, i am also interested in this conversation because i am also thinking of getting a overhang skimmer for my 75 that i need to set up. Just wanted more info :]

 

[Biokabe]

If i read right, nitrates will then turn into phosphates? I still am learning on the correct levels for nitrates and po4 abd want to know when would you dose nitrates and all that, i am also interested in this conversation because i am also thinking of getting a overhang skimmer for my 75 that i need to set up. Just wanted more info :]

No, nitrates don't turn into phosphates. I think you misunderstood what @js-3Design was saying.

Nitrates and phosphates both come from DOC (dissolved organic compounds). Basically, decaying food and animal waste.

Plants and algae use nitrates and phosphates for photosynthesis. My tank already has somewhat low nitrates; if I were to run my refugium for longer (to use up more phosphates and bring my high levels of phosphates down), there's a possibility that the refugium could use up my nitrates before making a meaningful dent in my phosphates. So to prevent my tank from bottoming out on nitrates, I would need to dose nitrates into the tank so that I could run the refugium longer and hopefully take out more phosphates.

 

[luffy]

If i read right, nitrates will then turn into phosphates? I still am learning on the correct levels for nitrates and po4 abd want to know when would you dose nitrates and all that, i am also interested in this conversation because i am also thinking of getting a overhang skimmer for my 75 that i need to set up. Just wanted more info :]

No, nitrates don't turn into phosphates. I think you misunderstood what @js-3Design was saying.

Nitrates and phosphates both come from DOC (dissolved organic compounds). Basically, decaying food and animal waste.

Plants and algae use nitrates and phosphates for photosynthesis. My tank already has somewhat low nitrates; if I were to run my refugium for longer (to use up more phosphates and bring my high levels of phosphates down), there's a possibility that the refugium could use up my nitrates before making a meaningful dent in my phosphates. So to prevent my tank from bottoming out on nitrates, I would need to dose nitrates into the tank so that I could run the refugium longer and hopefully take out more phosphates.

Ohhh i see i see yeah i misinterpreted what @js-3Design said, so how would you tackle unstable levels for example having 20 ppm nitrates and lower phos, or the oposite ? Water changes and dose nitrates if phos are too much?

 

[Biokabe]

For nitrates, you want a combination of different things to tackle them. Refugiums and algae turf scrubbers are both great for that - the algae uses the nitrate to grow more algae, then you harvest the algae every so often and export the nutrients that way. Corals will also take up nitrates and use them to fuel growth.

If you have anoxic zones in your rockwork/sand bed, those can take up nitrates and convert them into nitrogen gas.

Water changes will also directly lower nitrates in proportion to the amount of water you changed - if you had 10 ppm of nitrates, and did a 10% water change, you would now have 9 ppm of nitrate. Assuming your replacement water had 0 ppm, of course.

So if you need to lower nitrates, those are your direct options: Grow algae and/or corals, create anoxic zones, or do a water change.

Phosphates are a little more complicated. Unlike nitrates, phosphates will bind with your rocks. When your phosphates are too high for too long, the excess is sequestered into your rockwork. Whenever the free-floating phosphates go lower than a certain level (different for every tank), some of that excess phosphate is released from the rocks, putting your free-floating phosphates back up to a certain level.

Some of the same techniques still work for reducing phosphates - namely, growing algae and/or corals. Water changes aren't really effective at combating phosphates because so much is bound up in rocks rather than free-floating in the water. So to lower phosphates, you often need to employ dedicated chemical treatments - GFO, lanthanum chloride, etc.

That's just for dealing with what is already in your water. You can also use mechanical filtration (filter socks, filter floss, filter rollers, and protein skimmers) to remove the precursor sources from your water before they become nitrates and phosphates.

And typically you'd want to use some combination of all of those to properly manage your nitrates and phosphates.

 

[js-3Design]

Yes i meant what biokade said.
You nitrates are on the lower side.. the will bottom out if you try to run your refuge longer:)

 

[Biokabe]

So, I finally pulled the skimmer out of the tank last night.

It never did stop overflowing, so it's not like it was doing anything for most of the time... I just finally formalized it.

So now I need to decide - what to replace it with? A cryptic zone? Some kind of reactor? A second ATS? Nothing? Try out a different skimmer?

Right now I'm leaning towards a cryptic zone, but I'm open to other ideas.

 

[BryanM]

So, I finally pulled the skimmer out of the tank last night.

It never did stop overflowing, so it's not like it was doing anything for most of the time... I just finally formalized it.

So now I need to decide - what to replace it with? A cryptic zone? Some kind of reactor? A second ATS? Nothing? Try out a different skimmer?

Right now I'm leaning towards a cryptic zone, but I'm open to other ideas.

I haven't run a skimmer in over a year.

I run filter socks and an oversized ATS from Santa Monica.

I still have issues with phosphate so I am running GFO to remove it. And now my issue with nitrates is its getting far too low, so I just made a batch of sodium nitrate to start dosing that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So, I finally pulled the skimmer out of the tank last night.

It never did stop overflowing, so it's not like it was doing anything for most of the time... I just finally formalized it.

So now I need to decide - what to replace it with? A cryptic zone? Some kind of reactor? A second ATS? Nothing? Try out a different skimmer?

Right now I'm leaning towards a cryptic zone, but I'm open to other ideas.

The main benefits of a skimmer are aeration, and organic reduction.

Activated carbon can do some of the same organic export.

 

[BryanM]

The main benefits of a skimmer are aeration, and organic reduction.

Activated carbon can do some of the same organic export.

Aeration was the only concern I really had when getting rid of my skimmer, but in my case the effects of removing it were minimal.

 

[Biokabe]

The main benefits of a skimmer are aeration, and organic reduction.

Activated carbon can do some of the same organic export.

I don't think I have any issues with aeration - my PH is pretty high (8.3-8.5 throughout the day) and between the refugium, the ATO, and the turbulent flow in the main tank I think that's covered.

I do have some softies that I know can throw out some chemical warfare, so maybe a carbon reactor + adding a cryptic zone. I do run ChemiPure Elite - would that duplicate some of the functionality of a carbon reactor? Or am I better off just sticking with the Chemipure and not worrying about adding another piece of equipment?

 

[ReefGeezer]

If only the answer was so simple. Skimmers are necessary in some systems and a waste of energy and space in others.

I run a skimmer in my very mature 90. That tank is loaded with fish and is fed heavily. I really don't care about nitrogen or phosphate levels so much... the corals need both. The tank runs 10-15 ppm of nitrate and .2 ppm of phosphate. I run the skimmer to help limit dissolved organics (DOC). I also run GAC for the same reason.

Very little of that DOC gets a chance to decompose in this tank. There are just too many users. However, those users can include Cyano and other unwanted bacteria. They show up if the DOC level gets high enough. The skimmer and GAC keep that stuff down.

 

[Abominable Snow Crab]

Necessary... no

Optional.... yes

Nice to have... Definitely

 

[Tahoe61]

IM 25, Bubble Magus. One day of skim.

IM 20, IOAOI. Two days skim.

I am inclined to feel that removing this waste even in nanos tanks is beneficial.

Low bio-load and routine water changes, on both.

 

[BryanM]

IM 25, Bubble Magus. One day of skim.

IM 20, IOAOI. Two days skim.

I am inclined to feel that removing this waste even in nanos tanks is beneficial.

Low bio-load and routine water changes, on both.

Oh man, neither of these would be wife approved being visible!

 

[Tahoe61]

Oh man, neither of these would be wife approved being visible!

Right!!!!!. And that's why a sump might be a good idea.