Is a water change, testing or air stone needed while seeding dry rock with live rock?

[Zero_Cool]

I am currently "seeding" dry rock in bins with a few pieces of live rock. These have been in the same bins for 6 weeks or so. Bins are covered, heated and have a powerhead running. The bins get "fed" a cube of mysis every 7-10 days. It will be another 6 weeks minimum before my tank is set up. I have done no water parameter tests on the bins.

Questions:
- Do I need to add an air stone to the bins?
- Do I need to do a water change?
- Do I need to test for ammonia, phosphate or nitrate?

 

[brandon429]

that is 100% cycled per several rules in place. the first one is a common cycling chart


no testing is needed whatsoever. in fact, here's a twin setup...this is a whole reef built from dry rock, feed only, for 1 month:


you are cycled beyond that, live rock sitting in the flow path is better than just feed because actual marine bac got in, and have been spurned in the wait time. this is a testless cycle setup you have: we don't need to verify or test anything.


here's the testless 30 day feed only cycle:

Build Thread - My SPS Waterbox Peninsula Mini 15

Hi all. Long time member (I think I joined right around when R2R started or took off years ago) but got out of the hobby for about 6 years and now I am back! I don't see many build threads for the PM 15 (mostly the 25) so thought I'd share my journey here. This post will be a bit behind...

www.reef2reef.com

I have several others. since you used live rock, the contact transfer time sped up greatly, your dry rocks took on their bac in about 15 days or so, likely less. it's been cycled 3x over based on a six week wait time.

 

[brandon429]

I'm surprised they didnt crash being covered

you need to uncover those bins. covered is to work against a highly aerobic process. since there's likely air under the lid/the water isn't full to the top that microclimate likely saved your setup. still needs to be uncapped, twist the lids and set on the rotation laying on top to keep out dirt but allow some air exchange.

 

[Jedi1199]

I am currently "seeding" dry rock in bins with a few pieces of live rock. These have been in the same bins for 6 weeks or so. Bins are covered, heated and have a powerhead running. The bins get "fed" a cube of mysis every 7-10 days. It will be another 6 weeks minimum before my tank is set up. I have done no water parameter tests on the bins.

Questions:
- Do I need to add an air stone to the bins?
- Do I need to do a water change?
- Do I need to test for ammonia, phosphate or nitrate?

No to all of the above.

If you are simply seeding dry rock for eventual placement into a new build, then no action beyond what you have done is needed. (I personally wouldn't have even bothered with the heater)

As long as you break the surface tension with water movement, you promote gas exchange, therefore no need for air stones, or pumps.

A simple top off, even with waste water from a running tank, is all you need. No reason to do a water change, you are not keeping living fish or corals alive.

If it would ease your mind that the rock is cycled, a Nitrate test wouldn't hurt, but as Brandon said, it is surely cycled.

 

[Jedi1199]

I have a 32g trash can with 40 or so pounds of dry rock in it. I filled it with the water from a water change on my main display, set a pump inside and have done nothing more to it since that day except top it off from time to time. I suspect the salinity is quite high in that can as I use waste water from the main tank for these top offs.

It's been almost 8 months now, and while I do not test it, I would put good money up that that can is a cycled as any established system loaded with fish and corals.

Further, I would put that same money up that I could take a few chunks of rock from that can and cycle a new build in a matter of hours.

Dry rock, Waste water from a water change, a pump and top off as needed. NO food, no nothing.

I did this to disgrace the theory that "There is no beneficial cycling bacteria in the water column". ... HOGWASH!!

 

[brandon429]

Do you realize the cycling gold you're sitting on

Nobody in reefing has the patience to own such a setup they'd have dosed fritz ten times over by now. The most savory test you could do for updated cycling science would be:



Use the online volume / ammonia % strength calculator to input a known amount of ammonia equivalent to 1ppm for the testing setup.

Run an ammonia test after it's well mixed in, post the reading to see if the test can even accurately report a verified 1ppm dose, post that pic

Then wait 24 then 48 hours posting two pics for the intervals and we watch for a drop=cycling gold

 

[brandon429]

Taking out a subsection into a five gallon bucket would also remark on the entire set of rocks and you're not having to dose the full setup

 

[Zero_Cool]

I'm surprised they didnt crash being covered

you need to uncover those bins. covered is to work against a highly aerobic process. since there's likely air under the lid/the water isn't full to the top that microclimate likely saved your setup. still needs to be uncapped, twist the lids and set on the rotation laying on top to keep out dirt but allow some air exchange.

How would I know if it crashed? The bins are totes from Lowe's so not really air tight I guess.

No smell or anything.

I'll pop the tops off for a while..

 

[brandon429]

smell alone, no smell no crash. nice

 

[Jedi1199]

Do you realize the cycling gold you're sitting on

Nobody in reefing has the patience to own such a setup they'd have dosed fritz ten times over by now. The most savory test you could do for updated cycling science would be:



Use the online volume / ammonia % strength calculator to input a known amount of ammonia equivalent to 1ppm for the testing setup.

Run an ammonia test after it's well mixed in, post the reading to see if the test can even accurately report a verified 1ppm dose, post that pic

Then wait 24 then 48 hours posting two pics for the intervals and we watch for a drop=cycling gold

I assume you are talking to me on this... Yes I do realize exactly what I have!

I was actually thinking of doing exactly what you said, just for the benefit of our forum readers. I was actually thinking of upping the dosage to say a 5% ppm ammonia volume and then monitoring how fast it drops.

If its worth doing, its worth overdoing.. lol

 

[brandon429]

hey can you break it up in sections to test at different strengths, one test ruins all the potential rock that could be used to state gradients.

for example, if it can't move 1 ppm down at all in 48 hours we need to know

and the upper end of the scale, all from one set of rocks: how long to resolve 5 ppm


**plus we get to see: can a typical everyman's ammonia kit even accurately report 1 ppm>?

that's all article gold. to move water around reef rocks in a big bin of clean saltwater adding absolutely no helps and letting mother nature state what I cycle does is worth a macna podium talk, it's that rare with gradient information.

it would have been possible to sub test 5 gallons worth at 2 mos, to see what a short wait can do. all that added up= worthy of a macna talk on unassisted marine cycling, in a world of for-sale bottle bac.

 

[Jedi1199]

@brandon429 How about this: I will run 2 tests, (Your 5g bucket thought got my wheels turning) First with a standard 1ppm ammonia volume and the second with 5ppm. I have enough rocks all of a similar size to run these tests simultaneously. Should have results by Sunday the 12th.

 

[Tamberav]

I'm surprised they didnt crash being covered

you need to uncover those bins. covered is to work against a highly aerobic process. since there's likely air under the lid/the water isn't full to the top that microclimate likely saved your setup. still needs to be uncapped, twist the lids and set on the rotation laying on top to keep out dirt but allow some air exchange.

Idk.. I kept live rock in a bin for over a year, covered and it never crashed. I found it still have live starfish living off the bacterial film no doubt and a predatory whelk.. probably eating the starfish.. ha. So even living higher life forms. I never ghost fed that rock anything either. Pulled it out one day and put it in a tank and added corals the same day.

Bins are not really completely air tight or anything, especially with a powerhead cord and what not running out. The bin was not full to the top, maybe 3/4.

 

[Jedi1199]

hey can you break it up in sections to test at different strengths, one test ruins all the potential rock that could be used to state gradients.

for example, if it can't move 1 ppm down at all in 48 hours we need to know

and the upper end of the scale, all from one set of rocks: how long to resolve 5 ppm


**plus we get to see: can a typical everyman's ammonia kit even accurately report 1 ppm>?

that's all article gold. to move water around reef rocks in a big bin of clean saltwater adding absolutely no helps and letting mother nature state what I cycle does is worth a macna podium talk, it's that rare with gradient information.

it would have been possible to sub test 5 gallons worth at 2 mos, to see what a short wait can do. all that added up= worthy of a macna talk on unassisted marine cycling, in a world of for-sale bottle bac.

I could even do this...

Run 2 tests. Using a measured amount of rock (1 pound of rock per gallon all of similar size and shape) testing ammonia levels with both a couple standard color match kits AND the Seneye.

Run the tests at the above discussed 1ppm and 5ppm values. Hourly updates to have a clear view of how fast the ammonia is neutralized.

 

[brandon429]

I forgot you have a seneye
If you upload the digital logs of that *plus* your calibration logs of the device reporting normally on a running reef tank to prove its a fair cycling umpire I'll cry like a pageant winner