Is this a bad idea? Potential 16 gallon Smithii Mantis Shrimp Tank

natattack · Nov 17, 2023

Hello,

I have been building a 16 gallon aquarium for some time now and have acquired all my equipment. I know that I want to do a planted macro algae aquarium with some random photosynthetic sponges and a mangrove. I am pretty set in this goal.

Equipment:
-Seachem Tidal 55 Filter
-Finnex Fugeray Planted+ Light
-Eheim Jager 100W Heater
-Tunze Osmolator ATO

I originally wanted to stock some rock flower anemones and a host of invertebrates like fire red shrimp, sexy shrimp, and porcelain crabs. But I have also always had a love for mantis shrimp and think this tank might actually be perfect for a single purple spot/Smith's mantis shrimp instead of the other stocking plan.

Would this species of mantis shrimp do well in such a tank? I am thinking the macro algae, appropriate rock work, and sand bed would give them great burrow supplies and my glass is 1/4" thick to prevent any mantis shrimp punching mishaps.

Would such a setup work?

Also, I have seen testimonials of people keeping a single aggressive damselfish with mantis shrimp to some success. I know the traditional wisdom is that they will kill anything that moves but is this an exception?

Let me know if there are any especially good resources out there on the internet for caring for these weirdos as I would love to learn more!

CoralsComeInMoreColors · Nov 17, 2023

I had a buddy who kept a mantis shrimp in his sump just fine, from what i can tell a 16g is perfectly fine. as for tank mates, its a hit or miss on almost every fish and invertebrate. my LFS has them in the same tank as chocolate stars, and @massimoaquatics on youtube did the same, so I would assume a choco star would be a decent tank mate.

ISpeakForTheSeas · Nov 17, 2023

natattack said:
Would this species of mantis shrimp do well in such a tank? I am thinking the macro algae, appropriate rock work, and sand bed would give them great burrow supplies and my glass is 1/4" thick to prevent any mantis shrimp punching mishaps.

Would such a setup work?

Also, I have seen testimonials of people keeping a single aggressive damselfish with mantis shrimp to some success. I know the traditional wisdom is that they will kill anything that moves but is this an exception?

To my limited knowledge, that setup should work well for G. smithii - I'd just make sure you research their burrows in the wild, as a lot of people I've seen struggle to setup appropriate burrows for their mantis. If you're wanting it to build it's own burrow, then I'd make sure you have plenty of rubble-sized rocks in the tank in addition to the larger rocks and sand, as having a variety of sizes to work with as building materials can help critters build better burrows.

With the damsels, the general consensus that I've seen is that it can work, but you should expect to eventually wake up to a dead fish (even if you never do); sometimes the fish gets caught quickly, sometimes it takes months or years before it gets caught, and sometimes the fish doesn't get caught at all, but it could get caught at any time. It's less of a risk with smasher mantises, and damsels are fast, agile fish that are pretty good at staying safe from the mantises (which is why damsels are used and not other fish), but it's still a risk.

Stomatopods17 · Nov 22, 2023

G. smithii doesn't have too demanding burrow requirements. They typically burrow under rock or make a cavity in the rock themselves.

O. scyllarus (peacock) is where burrows are very difficult and often problematic, as well as lysiosquillina (VERY deep sand).

16g is pretty big, G. smithii stays much smaller but they are a very interactive species. Definitely worth it!

Do not house it with a rock flower anemone. You can get away with larger species and bubble tips, but smaller species have been eaten by anemones.

Damsels: its the combination of the fish being really affordable to lose in worst case scenario, and the fact they're very fast while predators are typically pretty lazy if you provide them with other options to eat instead. My O. scyllarus's 1 year anniversary with her damsel is first week of January. Other fish don't have as easy of a time seeking refuge inbetween the rock if chased, are slower, or hover too close to the bottom rather than swimming.

Fish Fan · Nov 22, 2023

Stomatopods17 said:
G. smithii doesn't have too demanding burrow requirements. They typically burrow under rock or make a cavity in the rock themselves.

O. scyllarus (peacock) is where burrows are very difficult and often problematic, as well as lysiosquillina (VERY deep sand).

16g is pretty big, G. smithii stays much smaller but they are a very interactive species. Definitely worth it!

Do not house it with a rock flower anemone. You can get away with larger species and bubble tips, but smaller species have been eaten by anemones.

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have a quick question please. I recently started a 10 gallon with an N. wenerrae mantis, and I had been planning on adding several small RFA's. I had asked about this before purchasing the mantis, and I thought I was told this would be fine to do. My mantis is about 1.5-2". Would it be a bad idea to mix my mantis with say 4 or 5 RFA's? Thank you for your help!

Stomatopods17 · Nov 22, 2023

Fish Fan said:
Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have a quick question please. I recently started a 10 gallon with an N. wenerrae mantis, and I had been planning on adding several small RFA's. I had asked about this before purchasing the mantis, and I thought I was told this would be fine to do. My mantis is about 1.5-2". Would it be a bad idea to mix my mantis with say 4 or 5 RFA's? Thank you for your help!

I recall telling someone ('m having vague memory exactly what that thread was) that BTAs (bubble tip) and O. scyllarus work fine as long as the anemone is stopped from ever going in or around the burrow entrance.

N. Wennerae not a good idea, they easily are stung and swallowed while larger species wouldn't get caught and have thicker shells, and I still wouldn't trust anything but BTA around them.

Kathy Floyd · Nov 22, 2023

@OrchidMiss

Fish Fan · Nov 22, 2023

Stomatopods17 said:
I recall telling someone ('m having vague memory exactly what that thread was) that BTAs and O. scyllarus work fine as long as the anemone is stopped from ever going in or around the burrow entrance.

N. Wennerae not a good idea, they easily are stung and swallowed while larger species wouldn't get caught and have thicker shells.

Wow, OK thanks for letting me know, that could have been bad lol!

Would there be any corals that are safe to add with my Mantis, or would they also sting the Mantis?

Thank you very much for your help!

Stomatopods17 · Nov 22, 2023

I don't know how stomatopods and protopaly interact (idk if the toxin bothers them but i personally avoid them for my own safety anyways), other than that its basically just searching around which corals are known to eat fish and avoiding those. The only one that comes to mind immediate is the giant mushroom corals that have been known to swallow fish, some LPS might be brutal but don't know which ones.

I don't overthink it about the corals personally, and the corals I did put in the tank either died because cuc can't keep up with the algae smothering them with the mantis in the tank, or were demolished and used as doors.

Another thing not many think about is when you feed the coral, the mantis goes straight at it smelling the food, and then proceeds to do mantis things agitating it or killing it thinking it can steal the food. This is what would get a N. wennerae killed in a nem. I actually fill two syringes with reef roids, I 'bottle feed' the mantis while spraying the coral with the other, then add a piece of krill to ensure its satisfied and not going to go looking for leftovers. Its also a good way to get her out for guest since feeding krill isn't too exciting.

Fish Fan · Nov 22, 2023

Stomatopods17 said:
I don't know how stomatopods and protopaly interact (idk if the toxin bothers them but i personally avoid them for my own safety anyways), other than that its basically just searching around which corals are known to eat fish and avoiding those. The only one that comes to mind immediate is the giant mushroom corals that have been known to swallow fish, some LPS might be brutal but don't know which ones.

I don't overthink it about the corals personally, and the corals I did put in the tank either died because cuc can't keep up with the algae smothering them with the mantis in the tank, or were demolished and used as doors.

Another thing not many think about is when you feed the coral, the mantis goes straight at it smelling the food, and then proceeds to do mantis things agitating it or killing it thinking it can steal the food. This is what would get a N. wennerae killed in a nem. I actually fill two syringes with reef roids, I 'bottle feed' the mantis while spraying the coral with the other, then add a piece of krill to ensure its satisfied and not going to go looking for leftovers. Its also a good way to get her out for guest since feeding krill isn't too exciting.

OK, thank you so much for the information. I am going to have to do some more research on what I can safely keep with my Mantis. Thanks again, I appreciate your help!

FreshwaterConvert · Dec 6, 2023

I had a smithii for a while, and the RFA I have now is tiny compared to him, so I’d say be conscious of the size when picking. I had a rock arch formation and a PVC burrow that he spent most of his time in. I had an orange tail damsel that I added after a bit over a year and never really noticed them interacting, still have the damsel today. It sounds like your tank is gonna be just fine for the little guy. Had him in with all sorts of mushrooms and zoas and softies and he never cared, but he did always steal any LPS I tried for his burrow. So I learned my lesson after the second frag got swiped. It is important to have a lot of smaller pieces of rubble so they can close up their burrow when they need to and when they’re molting.

Grog · Jan 14, 2024

I've kept N. wenerrae a few times. IMO they do well in species tanks, 10G worked fine with some live rock and a HOB filter. 'He' would come out to eat and I would feed him pieces of clam or table shrimp, chopped. I'd hold it in chopsticks to present it. Would never take more than a minute for it to take the food. Fascinating creatures but they will kill CUC. (But not as much of a killer as the Menippe adina that I had.) So plan on refreshing your CUC every so often. They will disappear if you are not feeding the mantis enough. For corals, I did keep some palythoa grandis and gorgonians in with the mantis with no issues. So, if you want some corals, they worked.