Is This Behavior Normal?

[nickkohrn]

I started my 10g quarantine tank a few months ago with a pair of clownfish. I recently added some PVC and two wrasses. The larger wrasse (Tricolor Fairy Wrasse) and the smaller wrasse (McCosker's Flasher Wrasse) were introduced within the last couple of days. There doesn't appear to be any issues from the smaller wrasse, but the larger wrasse and the clownfish seem to be arguing over territory. I haven't seen any aggression between the two wrasses, which is what I expect since Fairy and Flasher wrasses, typically, are okay together.

- Is this to be expected since the clownfish were in the system for much longer than the others?
- Should I add more PVC and rearrange them?
- Do I need an acclimation box to keep them civil?

They are all eating and swimming well. The only issue that I am seeing is the slight aggression over a single piece of PVC, which you can see in the attached video. The clownfish will swim to the wrasse and start shaking, which looks similar to the dance that clownfish do when determining their hierarchy with other clownfish.

There is currently some hidden behind the others, so not all of the pieces are visible in the attached video. Maybe they need more options since they are in a 10g. I have seen many others with standard 10g quarantine tanks with the same number of fish, so maybe I need to provide more places for them to hide in such tight quarters.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

I would say it is expected. Clowns are territorial and they were there first.

The biggest mistake I see in quarantine is trying to cram too many fish in at once. The two clowns would be great in the 10. Two wrasse would be ok as well. All four is harder. It can certainly be done, but why make it harder than it has to be? Stress from overcrowding and aggression, more ammonia issues etc etc.

Also, by adding fish later you reset the clock on the original fish, making their stay in qt longer. Also, by combining fish from different sources you expose all fish to more parasites.

Patience grasshopper, lol

Best of luck, love your fish choices so far!

 

[Jesterrace]

Yup, one of the biggest myths in the hobby is that Ocellaris variety clownfish are Peaceful. They are most definitely territorial/semi-aggressive to some degree, especially once established. I agree that all 4 fish in 10 gallon quarantine is super cramped and technically only the McCoskers is really peaceful of the bunch.

 

[nickkohrn]

I would say it is expected. Clowns are territorial and they were there first.

The biggest mistake I see in quarantine is trying to cram too many fish in at once. The two clowns would be great in the 10. Two wrasse would be ok as well. All four is harder. It can certainly be done, but why make it harder than it has to be? Stress from overcrowding and aggression, more ammonia issues etc etc.

Also, by adding fish later you reset the clock on the original fish, making their stay in qt longer. Also, by combining fish from different sources you expose all fish to more parasites.

Patience grasshopper, lol

Best of luck, love your fish choices so far!

I definitely don't want to have any others in this quarantine system. I do agree that I likely have too many fish for this size of tank. However, I have been battling dinoflagellates due to undetectable levels of nitrates and phosphates. I heavily increased feedings a couple of weeks ago, when I had only two clownfish, and that didn't seem to raise them. They would return, even after extended blackouts. I thought that having the additional fish and additional feeding would increase those levels and outcompete the dinoflagellates.

I think I will head to the hardware store and pick up some more PVC to see if that helps calm them down. If that doesn't work, then I will likely trade out the 10g for a 20g.

Thank you for your response; it's appreciated.

 

[nickkohrn]

Yup, one of the biggest myths in the hobby is that Ocellaris variety clownfish are Peaceful. They are most definitely territorial/semi-aggressive to some degree, especially once established. I agree that all 4 fish in 10 gallon quarantine is super cramped and technically only the McCoskers is really peaceful of the bunch.

I should have been smarter about this. I fell in love with these wrasses as soon as I saw them, and I picked them up after having seen prior that Fairy and Flasher wrasses are typically okay together. I will try adding more PVC. If that doesn't help, then I will upgrade to a 20g quarantine tank.

Thank you for your response!

 

[Butuz]

I started my 10g quarantine tank a few months ago with a pair of clownfish. I recently added some PVC and two wrasses. The larger wrasse (Tricolor Fairy Wrasse) and the smaller wrasse (McCosker's Flasher Wrasse) were introduced within the last couple of days. There doesn't appear to be any issues from the smaller wrasse, but the larger wrasse and the clownfish seem to be arguing over territory. I haven't seen any aggression between the two wrasses, which is what I expect since Fairy and Flasher wrasses, typically, are okay together.

- Is this to be expected since the clownfish were in the system for much longer than the others?
- Should I add more PVC and rearrange them?
- Do I need an acclimation box to keep them civil?

They are all eating and swimming well. The only issue that I am seeing is the slight aggression over a single piece of PVC, which you can see in the attached video. The clownfish will swim to the wrasse and start shaking, which looks similar to the dance that clownfish do when determining their hierarchy with other clownfish.

There is currently some hidden behind the others, so not all of the pieces are visible in the attached video. Maybe they need more options since they are in a 10g. I have seen many others with standard 10g quarantine tanks with the same number of fish, so maybe I need to provide more places for them to hide in such tight quarters.

First major disclaimer, Nick, - as you know, I am new to the hobby. However, based upon some reading I have done, looks like two distinct structures may increase your chance of defining separate territories. The way you have it now, it looks like one continous structure. I remember reading that two standalone and distanced structures sometime help address this issue. That is why I have done that in my QT, roughly the same number of pvc pieces, but I have them in two piles, opposite ends of the qt tank. See if that helps with your issue.

 

[Jesterrace]

I get the love of Wrasses. I have a Melanurus and Blue Star Leopard in my 90 gallon. Without a doubt the hobby's most underrated fish.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Personally I wouldnt add any pipes. You have more than enough. Extra pipes just makes it harder to siphon out uneaten food. Possibly replace some you have with smaller ones to make fish feel more secure.

If aggression doesn't subside, you could partition the tank to separate the fish.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

As for the undetectable nitrate and phosphate, I understand and adding more fish is a good way to increase these. However, you dont have to cram them into qt. You could simply feed the tank more food without having more fish and get the same effect.

 

[nickkohrn]

First major disclaimer, Nick, - as you know, I am new to the hobby. However, based upon some reading I have done, looks like two distinct structures may increase your chance of defining separate territories. The way you have it now, it looks like one continous structure. I remember reading that two standalone and distanced structures sometime help address this issue. That is why I have done that in my QT, roughly the same number of pvc pieces, but I have them in two piles, opposite ends of the qt tank. See if that helps with your issue.

That's a good idea. That may help here since the clownfish tend to stay together.

I get the love of Wrasses. I have a Melanurus and Blue Star Leopard in my 90 gallon. Without a doubt the hobby's most underrated fish.

I wish that I could have a system that consists of just wrasses. They are so beautiful and I love how they glide through the water with precision.

Personally I wouldnt add any pipes. You have more than enough. Extra pipes just makes it harder to siphon out uneaten food. Possibly replace some you have with smaller ones to make fish feel more secure.

If aggression doesn't subside, you could partition the tank to separate the fish.

That's a good point about not crowding the tank with more PVC. If I have to end up creating a partition, then I will just upgrade to a larger tank that I could partition. They would then have the same amount of space as they do now, but they wouldn't be able to invade territories.

 

[nickkohrn]

-duplicated post removed-

 

[nickkohrn]

As for the undetectable nitrate and phosphate, I understand and adding more fish is a good way to increase these. However, you dont have to cram them into qt. You could simply feed the tank more food without having more fish and get the same effect.

I completely understand. I should have thought about it more thoroughly. However, I was still unable to detect nitrates and phosphates after heavily increasing feedings. There is a continuous supply of leftover food that floats along the bottom of the tank every day. Nitrogen levels, including ammonia, remain undetectable. I will try splitting up the PVC into more-separated areas and see if that helps.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Sodium nitrate and trisodium phosphate have worked for me in the past. Cheap, easy just go slowly and test!