Is your humanity being questioned?

[bristleworm]

Always do an ocular patdown when entering the room.

 

[MegabiteOG]

I just tell it I'm a Robot and it doesn't ask me it again.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

RevDev or WebDev? Because one of those maybe shouldn’t have server backend access but who’s going to tell them no.

HAHAHA just seeing this and I kinda fit this cartoon description.

Not sure who RevDev is but he definitely should not have access. HAHA!

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Yes, same for me whether on my iPad or PC. I run a VPN so maybe that's why.

Do you have to use a VPN when you surf R2R? With all the AI BOTS destroying the internet we have to have pretty strict rules in place to thwart them as much as possible.

 

[commod0re]

Yes, same for me whether on my iPad or PC. I run a VPN so maybe that's why.

That is definitely one component. Hard to programmatically tell the difference between a real user and a bot on a VPN

It’s not just that though. Some bots have gotten very good at blending in with real traffic in terms of clues that the server can actually inspect. The more that happens the more folks will see bot-mitigation challenges. if you’re on a major national or multinational ISP then you’re also more likely to see challenges than if you’re on a smaller regional one

 

[BeanAnimal]

I am going to add something here for the "VPN" users.

There are two basic types of VPNs.

1 - a secure tunnel into a private network. This allows you to securely access resources inside of a private network.

I think that this is self explanatory, as is the use case.

2 - a secure tunnel between you and the internet.

I think that many folks misunderstand this type of VPN. So let's examine the two major reasons one may want to use this type of VPN.

A - to access resources while appearing to come from somewhere else.

You live in India and need to access a server in the United States that only allows traffic from the United States. This is valid, but the server in the US can tell that your IP belongs to a commercial VPN data center rather than a residential US internet provider. They will block it anyway if they are serious about allowing US-only traffic. This is why you can't cheat geo-restricted gambling apps or streaming apps using a VPN.

B - to "hide" or "protect" themselves from hackers, the government, tracking engines, etc.

I hate to tell you this, but a VPN doesn't hide your actual identity or location from anybody who matters. It masks your traffic from your local Wi-Fi or ISP. Tough it may not even accomplish that as well as you think. It simply shifts total visibility to the VPN provider instead.

Beyond that, tracking engines don't care about your IP address. They track you using browser fingerprinting, cookies, logged-in accounts, traffic correlation, and behavioral habits. None of that is protected by the VPN. All of that data is easily pieced together to pinpoint exactly who and where you are, much of it in real-time. The entities that matter (governments, hackers, Big Tech, etc.) can (and do) reconstruct this footprint whenever they decide to target or identify you. Often, they accomplish this before even bothering to subpoena your ISP, VPN provider, or device manufacturer. Your browsing alone tells countless systems who you are all day, every day, VPN or NOT.

The vast majority of VPN users in this category are wasting money and causing themselves more grief (proxy blocks, CAPTCHAs, and latency) than any benefit they stand to gain.

 

[MegabiteOG]

Do you have to use a VPN when you surf R2R? With all the AI BOTS destroying the internet we have to have pretty strict rules in place to thwart them as much as possible.

Yes I do which and considered that is a likely reason why it comes up quite a bit for me.

 

[MegabiteOG]

I am going to add something here for the "VPN" users.

There are two basic types of VPNs.

1 - a secure tunnel into a private network. This allows you to securely access resources inside of a private network.

I think that this is self explanatory, as is the use case.

2 - a secure tunnel between you and the internet.

I think that many folks misunderstand this type of VPN. So let's examine the two major reasons one may want to use this type of VPN.

A - to access resources while appearing to come from somewhere else.

You live in India and need to access a server in the United States that only allows traffic from the United States. This is valid, but the server in the US can tell that your IP belongs to a commercial VPN data center rather than a residential US internet provider. They will block it anyway if they are serious about allowing US-only traffic. This is why you can't cheat geo-restricted gambling apps or streaming apps using a VPN.

B - to "hide" or "protect" themselves from hackers, the government, tracking engines, etc.

I hate to tell you this, but a VPN doesn't hide your actual identity or location from anybody who matters. It masks your traffic from your local Wi-Fi or ISP. Tough it may not even accomplish that as well as you think. It simply shifts total visibility to the VPN provider instead.

Beyond that, tracking engines don't care about your IP address. They track you using browser fingerprinting, cookies, logged-in accounts, traffic correlation, and behavioral habits. None of that is protected by the VPN. All of that data is easily pieced together to pinpoint exactly who and where you are, much of it in real-time. The entities that matter (governments, hackers, Big Tech, etc.) can (and do) reconstruct this footprint whenever they decide to target or identify you. Often, they accomplish this before even bothering to subpoena your ISP, VPN provider, or device manufacturer. Your browsing alone tells countless systems who you are all day, every day, VPN or NOT.

The vast majority of VPN users in this category are wasting money and causing themselves more grief (proxy blocks, CAPTCHAs, and latency) than any benefit they stand to gain.

Very interesting, Bean.

I did get a VPN for reason A a while back, but absolutely agree that my VPN isn't hiding or protecting me in a significant way from what you posted.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Very interesting, Bean.

I did get a VPN for reason A a while back, but absolutely agree that my VPN isn't hiding or protecting me in a significant way from what you posted.

If you are browsing through a vpn to a private network (say work) to browse, then you traffic is proxied through the work network and you appear to be browsing from there. CloudFlare sees the proxy and that is creating the Turing tests or dynamic or heuristic blocks.

 

[commod0re]

B - to "hide" or "protect" themselves from hackers, the government, tracking engines, etc.

I hate to tell you this, but a VPN doesn't hide your actual identity or location from anybody who matters. It masks your traffic from your local Wi-Fi or ISP. Tough it may not even accomplish that as well as you think. It simply shifts total visibility to the VPN provider instead.

this point is only semi-accurate. IF you are connected to an untrusted or hostile network THEN a VPN MAY offer you some semblance of protection both from other members of the same network, and owners/administrators of that network. It's not complete protection, but nothing in infosec short of completely abstaining from networking is anyway. It does help raise the bar in such cases though

if you're just on your home network it's doing very little for you in terms of security/privacy. You could get about the same amount of privacy by using a DNS server that isn't run by your ISP, such as quad9

 

[commod0re]

main thing to remember about VPNs and privacy is that the Private in Virtual Private Network has nothing to do with user privacy, it relates to usage of RFC 1918 non-routable (private) IP addresses to create virtual (as in non-physical) private (non-routable, like your home network) network connections

 

[MegabiteOG]

main thing to remember about VPNs and privacy is that the Private in Virtual Private Network has nothing to do with user privacy, it relates to usage of RFC 1918 non-routable (private) IP addresses to create virtual (as in non-physical) private (non-routable, like your home network) network connections

Thanks for the info commod0re. Looks like I'm going to have to go back to my traditional time-tested method for privacy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

With all the AI BOTS destroying the internet we have to have pretty strict rules in place to thwart them as much as possible.

I hope someone finds a way to keep them from shutting down the whole internet to achieve some secret AI endeavor.

 

[BeanAnimal]

this point is only semi-accurate. IF you are connected to an untrusted or hostile network THEN a VPN MAY offer you some semblance of protection both from other members of the same network, and owners/administrators of that network. It's not complete protection, but nothing in infosec short of completely abstaining from networking is anyway. It does help raise the bar in such cases though

I painted with a broad brush and ignored edge cases because that framing fits most casual VPN users who have been told they are practicing “safe surfing.”

A VPN can prevent DNS hijacking when connected to a rogue network. But even there, a typical consumer VPN mostly protects Internet bound traffic, while HTTPS already encrypts the content of ordinary web traffic. It does little against attacks directed at the device itself because you are still attached to the LAN, and most consumer VPNs do not disable LAN access by default. Most people’s machines are Swiss cheese once attached to a hostile LAN.

My basic point was that, for the average user, consumer VPNs create more problems than they solve while protecting against an unlikely attack. Unless that user is already being specifically targeted, that is a rare scenario. Sophisticated phishing is much more effective, and if you have been targeted for a MITM network attack, you have much larger problems than a consumer VPN is going to solve.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I hope someone finds a way to keep them from shutting down the whole internet to achieve some secret AI endeavor.

My master plan is to not shut down the internet, but rather to simply have all bacon routed to me.

If you want to be shocked, go look at the stats for bot traffic and SPAM vs human traffic. Your jaw will drop.

I have not looked in a while but last I did, bad bots and automated spam were said to be 40% of all internet traffic, while total bot traffic (good and bad combined) regularly outnumbered actual human beings browsing the web.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

My master plan is to not shut down the internet, but rather to simply have all bacon routed to me.

If you want to be shocked, go look at the stats for bot traffic and SPAM vs human traffic. Your jaw will drop.

I have not looked in a while but last I did, bad bots and automated spam were said to be 40% of all internet traffic, while total bot traffic (good and bad combined) regularly outnumbered actual human beings browsing the web.

I guess it’s time for me to get a non digital audio version of the anarchists cookbook to peruse in my cave while preparing for Ai to take over. I’ll need a guide on how to pretend that spam tastes like bacon as well

 

[MegabiteOG]

My master plan is to not shut down the internet, but rather to simply have all bacon routed to me.

If you want to be shocked, go look at the stats for bot traffic and SPAM vs human traffic. Your jaw will drop.

I have not looked in a while but last I did, bad bots and automated spam were said to be 40% of all internet traffic, while total bot traffic (good and bad combined) regularly outnumbered actual human beings browsing the web.

A really worthwhile endeavor if you can actually literally bring home all of the bacon. Think of the power! You would achieve!

Interesting article on LinkedIn.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My master plan is to not shut down the internet, but rather to simply have all bacon routed to me.

If you want to be shocked, go look at the stats for bot traffic and SPAM vs human traffic. Your jaw will drop.

I have not looked in a while but last I did, bad bots and automated spam were said to be 40% of all internet traffic, while total bot traffic (good and bad combined) regularly outnumbered actual human beings browsing the web.

Bacon aside, my confidence in the future has dropped through the floor in the last few months.

AI's used to be a minor annoyance. They are presently a rising problem, and before long, I am quite confident they will cause major issues, driven by malevolent actors and AI's that decide how to solve "problems" in ways that were not anticipated by their designers.