Issues with certain corals w/ ICP info

[Andyf30]

Hi everyone,

I have some questions regarding my tank and wanted to see if I can get any input. The tank is 8 months old at this point, was a dry dock start, and has now pretty well settled in (coraline growing in, rocks are no longer bone white, etc) I have gotten an ICP test, and all of the main items were where they should have been (alk 10.5, calc 430, Mag 1360, Nitrate 15 ppm, Phosphate .04) however I got the test because I have been running into some issues I can't quite figure out.

I have been losing any and all sps I put in the tank, from monti's to birdsnest to acro. The symptoms develop as follows: they do fine for a few weeks, then they suddenly start randomly losing color in certain spots. Additionally, lepto's and sometimes favias also struggle. Meanwhile my ORA goni and my duncan are cruising along, which makes this all the more puzzling.

The ICP results did reveal the following:

Any and all advice would be welcome! I am a stickhead, so these issues have been killing me and frustrating me beyond end. My old tank was live rock started so this is new territory for me.

Thanks,

Andy

 

[MnFish1]

Hi everyone,

I have some questions regarding my tank and wanted to see if I can get any input. The tank is 8 months old at this point, was a dry dock start, and has now pretty well settled in (coraline growing in, rocks are no longer bone white, etc) I have gotten an ICP test, and all of the main items were where they should have been (alk 10.5, calc 430, Mag 1360, Nitrate 15 ppm, Phosphate .04) however I got the test because I have been running into some issues I can't quite figure out.

I have been losing any and all sps I put in the tank, from monti's to birdsnest to acro. The symptoms develop as follows: they do fine for a few weeks, then they suddenly start randomly losing color in certain spots. Additionally, lepto's and sometimes favias also struggle. Meanwhile my ORA goni and my duncan are cruising along, which makes this all the more puzzling.

The ICP results did reveal the following:

Any and all advice would be welcome! I am a stickhead, so these issues have been killing me and frustrating me beyond end. My old tank was live rock started so this is new territory for me.

Thanks,

Andy

The only thing that looks 'off' is the aluminum. So lets pretend for a minute its that. Any exposed metal? Are you using RODI? etc? Did you test your 'water source' - and water just after mixing it up'?

Secondly - there are lots of reasons for corals to not do well. What I have found is the higher the alkalinity, if you have a very bright tank, this fading can occur. Higher flow can help mitigate this.

Third - could you have a parasite, etc (do you quarantine, dip your corals?

Fourth - do you do water changes? If not I would consider doing them. I know this is heresy to some here - but if you look at multiple threads - alot of tanks have small elevations of (like you do), tin. You aluminum is somewhat high again.

 

[walloutlet]

Following along... hopefully some good conversation and questions/answers in this thread.

 

[MnFish1]

PS the other thing I was going to mention is where you're getting your corals from - are they 'frags' or larger pieces. One problem is if you get corals that have just been shipped from - wherever - to a wholesaler - to a fish store, and you buy them - you may be buying something thats had multiple different water conditions over a long period - which results in this slow 'death'. I tend to buy corals that have been in a stable environment for at least a couple weeks - and then try to match the PAR, etc (parameters) to avoid yet another shock.

 

[Andyf30]

The only thing that looks 'off' is the aluminum. So lets pretend for a minute its that. Any exposed metal? Are you using RODI? etc? Did you test your 'water source' - and water just after mixing it up'?

Secondly - there are lots of reasons for corals to not do well. What I have found is the higher the alkalinity, if you have a very bright tank, this fading can occur. Higher flow can help mitigate this.

Third - could you have a parasite, etc (do you quarantine, dip your corals?

Fourth - do you do water changes? If not I would consider doing them. I know this is heresy to some here - but if you look at multiple threads - alot of tanks have small elevations of (like you do), tin. You aluminum is somewhat high again.

I agree the aluminum is high, but from my research after getting the results back high Al typically shows up in softies, and my mushrooms and zoas are all doing fine. Theyre actually about the only thing that seems to be thriving. I do use RODI but get it from my LFS. I haven't tested it but have recently switched LFS for my water sourcing after getting this test back. I will get a TDS tester and see if the RODI is the issue. I have seen the RODI system the new lfs has with my own eyes and it is an actual multi stage with a DI compartment which I believe is already a step in the right direction from the old one (the old store is larger nicer and has better livestock, so I sort of went blind trust on that and am somewhat regretting it now.

I agree on the higher alk and after switching the water to a new LFS, they use the blue bucket red sea and I believe the old one used the black bucket. Blue bucket mixes at around 8 dkH so I will be slowly bringing it down with time (I ran my old tank around 8 and that was better IME)

I do not quarantine, but I dip everything that comes in. The only parasite I have seen on anything is an aiptasia or two and I got those taken out quickly. Everything else has shown to be pest free after dipping and observation.

I do a 20-30% water change weekly. I will admit though, I did get deployed a months ago and my fiancee watched the tank. Lets just say she was...lax? in her WC frequency. I was gone for about 45 days and I think she did two changes and maybe did water tests 3 times. It is possible things got fairly out of wack and I am now slowly undoing those issues (I know for a fact my nutrients spiked pretty badly)

 

[Andyf30]

PS the other thing I was going to mention is where you're getting your corals from - are they 'frags' or larger pieces. One problem is if you get corals that have just been shipped from - wherever - to a wholesaler - to a fish store, and you buy them - you may be buying something thats had multiple different water conditions over a long period - which results in this slow 'death'. I tend to buy corals that have been in a stable environment for at least a couple weeks - and then try to match the PAR, etc (parameters) to avoid yet another shock.

The SPS I have lost so far have been a WWC grafted cap, a WWC rainbow monti, a Milka stylo, and a green birdsnest, all that to my knowledge have not only been in the sellers tanks for years but the hobby for years. I intentionally went with the bulletproof stuff to start, that has uh. Shown me not to be too bulletproof lol

 

[MnFish1]

I agree the aluminum is high, but from my research after getting the results back high Al typically shows up in softies, and my mushrooms and zoas are all doing fine. Theyre actually about the only thing that seems to be thriving. I do use RODI but get it from my LFS. I haven't tested it but have recently switched LFS for my water sourcing after getting this test back. I will get a TDS tester and see if the RODI is the issue. I have seen the RODI system the new lfs has with my own eyes and it is an actual multi stage with a DI compartment which I believe is already a step in the right direction from the old one (the old store is larger nicer and has better livestock, so I sort of went blind trust on that and am somewhat regretting it now.

I agree on the higher alk and after switching the water to a new LFS, they use the blue bucket red sea and I believe the old one used the black bucket. Blue bucket mixes at around 8 dkH so I will be slowly bringing it down with time (I ran my old tank around 8 and that was better IME)

I do not quarantine, but I dip everything that comes in. The only parasite I have seen on anything is an aiptasia or two and I got those taken out quickly. Everything else has shown to be pest free after dipping and observation.

I do a 20-30% water change weekly. I will admit though, I did get deployed a months ago and my fiancee watched the tank. Lets just say she was...lax? in her WC frequency. I was gone for about 45 days and I think she did two changes and maybe did water tests 3 times. It is possible things got fairly out of wack and I am now slowly undoing those issues (I know for a fact my nutrients spiked pretty badly)

I agree with you (I doubt the Al is the problem). With the water changes, etc. And - seems like pests are not an issue. Alkalinity stability to me is the most important (and matching it to whatever tank the coral is coming from - ditto for lighting)

 

[PanchoG]

Intriguing case, following along.
One question, SPS tend to be light demanding, are the SPS dying in all the locations in your tank or just in certain spots?

 

[MnFish1]

The SPS I have lost so far have been a WWC grafted cap, a WWC rainbow monti, a Milka stylo, and a green birdsnest, all that to my knowledge have not only been in the sellers tanks for years but the hobby for years. I intentionally went with the bulletproof stuff to start, that has uh. Shown me not to be too bulletproof lol

I had my tank with huge Acro colonies, etc etc. Every easy 'birds nest' I added died exactly the same way yours have - look good for 2 weeks - then slowly fade away. No clue why. Another thing - its sometimes difficult to keep LPS and SPS - depending on they type - or even other hard corals - as they liberate toxins and outcompete other corals. It sounds like you have a lot of stuff in your tank. Do you run carbon>

 

[Andyf30]

Intriguing case, following along.
One question, SPS tend to be light demanding, are the SPS dying in all the locations in your tank or just in certain spots?

All the locations. I've lost acros in the highest part of the tank and birdsnest and montis in medium parts of the tank.

 

[Andyf30]

I had my tank with huge Acro colonies, etc etc. Every easy 'birds nest' I added died exactly the same way yours have - look good for 2 weeks - then slowly fade away. No clue why. Another thing - its sometimes difficult to keep LPS and SPS - depending on they type - or even other hard corals - as they liberate toxins and outcompete other corals. It sounds like you have a lot of stuff in your tank. Do you run carbon>

I do run carbon and have since day one. I've used it in all of my tanks.

 

[PanchoG]

What are your light settings?

 

[Andyf30]

What are your light settings?

This was an issue with my first light (Hydra 64hd) and now has continued with the radion. Hydra 64hd was being run at a dialed down BRS blue+ that I settled on with a PAR meter. The radion, since the tank is softies and LPS, is on the AB+, but is only running at 40% right now. And even then, it has been in acclimation mode for the last week to reduce the shock as much as possible.

 

[PanchoG]

This was an issue with my first light (Hydra 64hd) and now has continued with the radion. Hydra 64hd was being run at a dialed down BRS blue+ that I settled on with a PAR meter. The radion, since the tank is softies and LPS, is on the AB+, but is only running at 40% right now. And even then, it has been in acclimation mode for the last week to reduce the shock as much as possible.

I have a mixed tank and have 3 AI Hydras 26HD. I tried the BRS profile but after a couple of weeks with LPS started to bleach (duncans frogspawns, etc.), it is just too harsh with my corals. When I dialed back the light my SPS stopped growing (monti caps, digitatas, acros, chalice, setosa and birdnest). I had to increase the light in 5% steps every 3 weeks to get to the point where I could grow SPS while avoiding bleaching the LPS. My light parameters are UV, V -100%, RY, B - 110%, G, DR - 5% and CW at 20% with ramping up/down in 3 hours with a total 12 hours photo-period.

 

[Andyf30]

I have a mixed tank and have 3 AI Hydras 26HD. I tried the BRS profile but after a couple of weeks with LPS started to bleach (duncans frogspawns, etc.), it is just too harsh with my corals. When I dialed back the light my SPS stopped growing (monti caps, digitatas, acros, chalice, setosa and birdnest). I had to increase the light in 5% steps every 3 weeks to get to the point where I could grow SPS while avoiding bleaching the LPS. My light parameters are UV, V -100%, RY, B - 110%, G, DR - 5% and CW at 20% with ramping up/down in 3 hours with a total 12 hours photo-period.

I had the same issues until I got the PAR meter involved. Ended up with 250-400 up top depending on the spot and then with 100-200 down low in most places

 

[MnFish1]

IMHO - after reading everything = its alkalinity, flow and light. I might increase flow (not directly to the coral - but in the tank), let the alkalinity fall to 7-8, and keep your light the same. Many corals die off - and then recover - and re-cover the old dead pieces.