Japanese Swallowtail Angel help

[hig789]

Long story short, my wife wanted to get me a fish for my birthday and I came home and the fish was already in the tank. The guy at the LFS told her that the fish would be fine in our 40b. :( She's only about 2 1/2" long right now so I will take her and trade her back in after she gets better.

Noticed a few days ago that she had a lump on one gill and ich. The only other thing in my tank is a pair of captive bred clowns. The clowns have no sign of ich.

I have a AIO setup for a hospital tank for her. I was going to do a FW dip and hypo salinity.

Is this okay or what else would be recommended? If the clowns look fine should they be okay?

 

[Humblefish]

If she has ich, now your entire tank has ich and all fish need to be treated. :( I personally don't trust hypo as resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.) Your other treatment options would be: Copper, Chloroquine phosphate or tank transfer method.

Some angels can be copper sensitive, but seem to do fine in CP (but it's hard to get): https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

TTM would be ideal for her and your clownfish (so long as you are sure this is ich and not velvet): https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

The DT itself must be left fallow for 76 days: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

 

[hig789]

Velvet looks like dust on them right? These look like specks of salt on her

 

[Humblefish]

Velvet looks like dust on them right? These look like specks of salt on her

Yes, ich looks like grains of salt on the fish (bigger) whereas velvet looks like sugar sprinkles all over the fish.

 

[hig789]

Yes, ich looks like grains of salt on the fish (bigger) whereas velvet looks like sugar sprinkles all over the fish.

Yeah it's def ich. Going to use the TTM with 5g buckets, two glass heaters, thermometers and a air stone. Petsmart has a pack of six air stones for $5 so I can throw the old one out after a transfer.

Will the fish be okay in the same bucket? Both clowns are small and the angel is small. There's never any fighting in the tank. I debated two 10g aquariums if I need to go that route.

 

[hig789]

Any thoughts on the raised/swollen areas on the gill? The best I could figure is it is flukes but I'm not certain.

 

[Humblefish]

Will the fish be okay in the same bucket? Both clowns are small and the angel is small. There's never any fighting in the tank. I debated two 10g aquariums if I need to go that route.

My main concern would be ammonia build-up in just a 5 gal bucket. Angels are big poopers. A 10 gal (I think Petco is running their $ per gal sale again) and a bottle of ammonia reducer would give you more wiggle room.

Any thoughts on the raised/swollen areas on the gill? The best I could figure is it is flukes but I'm not certain.

Can you get me another pic (not under blue lights)? Dosing Prazipro at the onset of transfers 2 & 4 should take care of any flukes, if those are indeed present.

 

[stunreefer]

Humble has you well covered :)

Will the fish be okay in the same bucket? Both clowns are small and the angel is small. There's never any fighting in the tank. I debated two 10g aquariums if I need to go that route.

Short answer is maybe... at the least place several PVC fittings in bucket to provide cover. I've split 5 gal buckets with eggcrate too leaving no chance of physical interaction. Of course any of these would need to be disinfected between TTM, so have bleach handy or keep a spare set of everything.

 

[hig789]

Thanks everyone. I am just going to go with the 10g tanks vs the buckets.

Here's a better picture of her gill.

 

[hig789]

I don't know why it doesn't upload to full pic quality. That's about the best I can get though. Here's a side picture so you can see how it's swollen/raised.

 

[Humblefish]

I think it may be Lymphocystis. I also think I see Lympho on the caudal (tail) and anal fin. Is this what you were thinking was ich?

Lymphocystis:

Symptoms - Lymphocystis appears as a white or beige colored cauliflower-like growth that usually starts on the fins and spines and sometimes spreads to the body. Initially it may be small (looks like ich), and then grows in size (which is how you know it’s not ich). Lympho is a virus that many fish carry for life. Fortunately, it is rarely fatal or even harmful to the fish, and symptoms will come and go.

Treatment options - No known cure or treatment exists. However, feeding vitamin-enriched foods and maintaining pristine water conditions may expedite the “going away” process.

 

[hig789]

I think it may be Lymphocystis. I also think I see Lympho on the caudal (tail) and anal fin. Is this what you were thinking was ich?

Lymphocystis:

Symptoms - Lymphocystis appears as a white or beige colored cauliflower-like growth that usually starts on the fins and spines and sometimes spreads to the body. Initially it may be small (looks like ich), and then grows in size (which is how you know it’s not ich). Lympho is a virus that many fish carry for life. Fortunately, it is rarely fatal or even harmful to the fish, and symptoms will come and go.

Treatment options - No known cure or treatment exists. However, feeding vitamin-enriched foods and maintaining pristine water conditions may expedite the “going away” process.

Yeah I was looking at it after I took the picture and they don't appear to be be spreading but appear to be growing. Here's a better picture of how big they are. So nothing needs to be done? I feed Reef Frenzy daily, I assumed it had enough greens and vitamins in it but I could be wrong. She eats like a pig and have never seen her scratching on anything either.

 

[hig789]

After looking at some pictures online of lymphocystis I believe you are right, there were quit a pictures of angels with it and it looks pretty much identical. It is only on the fins too except for the spot on the gill

. I'll do some more research on some other foods for her and see if that helps. I'll keep a close eye on her over the next few days also.

 

[stunreefer]

I concur with lymph diagnosis. No need to change up foods, you're working with one of the best already (LRS).

Coincidence, but I have nine Heniochus sp. in a conditioning system right now, and six of them have lymph. I reached out to one of my friends who's a curator of a public aquarium and has written several books on fish ailments. Wondered if he had any new methods of eradicating the virus faster than I have in the past. Here was his response:
"Austin, Lymphocystis seems a lot less common than it was 20-40 years ago. Henis do get it fairly readily though. I guarantee you though, that other than isolation and good husbandry, there is no cure or treatment that works.....or rather, they ALL work as long as you give them at least 6 months to do their job (which is just as long as it takes the fish to fight off the Lymphocystis on its own!)."

My rec would be to keep water quality pristine and feed high quality food(s) frequently. If the growth(s) become large enough to inhibit normal swimming or eating, pull the fish and manually remove the growth causing issue. You can then apply iodine or Bio-Bandage to the wound which will help prevent additional secondary infections.

 

[Humblefish]

I agree with @stunreefer. However, I would also start soaking her fish food with Selcon, Zoecon, Vita-chem to expedite the "going away" process. I've had pretty good luck clearing Lympho in 2-3 weeks by doing this. Also, just to add to the Heniochus sp. observation, I can't remember the last time I got a Butterflyfish that didn't develop at least a mild case of Lymphocystis.

 

[pickupman66]

Ill agree here on the Lymph diagnosis. It seems much more like it by looking at the tail. I had a Copper Banded butterfly who had it as well. he would show symptoms off and on over the few years that I had him. more so after the stress of moving from a 180 to a 66 gallon system. for some odd reason, it would go away when I ran UV on the tank, and seemed to come back when I didnt use the UV. But water quality was key. I sold the butterfly as he had gotten tooo large for my tank and he went to a 280 and from what I hear is very fat and happy still. that was over a year ago. the new owner has never said anything about seeing the Lympho again. Keep up the high quality foods.

 

[Naiad]

The gill area may be an infected wound so qt may still be needed if she doesn't beat it with improved diet.

 

[melypr1985]

I can't remember the last time I got a Butterflyfish that didn't develop at least a mild case of Lymphocystis.

I know that's right! 90% of the butterflies we get into the store end up with it (I haven't seen any extreme cases yet). I have to spend most of my time talking to customers about Lymph and what to do about it. At least they learn something even if they dont buy the fish. ;)

 

[hig789]

Thank you so much for the help everyone. Going to order some Selcon from BRS.

Do I need to use this everyday with the LRS?

I assume it will be good for the clowns also even though there is nothing wrong with them?

 

[Humblefish]

Thank you so much for the help everyone. Going to order some Selcon from BRS.

Do I need to use this everyday with the LRS?

I assume it will be good for the clowns also even though there is nothing wrong with them?

Yes, although you can also soak it in pellets, flake, etc. There is no downside to using Selcon, Zoecon, etc. other than the cost (and sometimes the smell.) Whatever your fish don't absorb, your corals and other filter feeders will benefit from.