Discussion in 'Fish Discussion' started by 4FordFamily, Oct 19, 2016.

Keeping The Mysterious Moorish Idol

Moorish Idols. Impossible to keep. Better left in the wild, right? Anyone that has been in this hobby for nearly any length of time has read...
  1. Cheato Pet

    Cheato Pet New Member

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    I have seen these available from Sustainable Aquatics already eating pellets.
     
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  2. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Unfortunately they don't ship all that well and like regal angels and copperbad butterfly they may completely refuse food as if they never ate after arrival. It's definitely a better choice than buying one that doesn't eat or you don't know that it eats though!
     
  3. Todd White

    Todd White Member

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    My fish supplier talked me into the Black and White Heniochus instead. He said they were easier and look more like the Moorish Idol. We will see, got 4 coming Tuesday.
     
  4. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    They do look very similar
     
  5. DRoth335

    DRoth335 Active Member

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    Great article! We have had our Idol for just over a year and he has more than doubled in size. I dont think they are as fragile a fish as originally thought because once he got established and some size he is now 2nd in command in out tank - he yields to our 9" sailfin tang but doesnt to our blue face, gold flake and regal angels.

    Interestingly, there must be only certain sponges that idols and angels like as we have tons of sponge growth that doesnt get eaten. Has anyone else observed this?
     
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  6. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    The problem with Idols is not that they don't eat. That is a myth. I have had probably 7 of them and they all ate and they eat enormous amounts. More than most fish. The problem is that they look great, (and eat) for a few years, then for no apparent cause, decline in a day or two and drop dead with no noticeable disease.
     
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  7. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Many never get to this point though, but I guess that could be said about many species.

    I have firsthand seen some idols that wouldn't eat but nothing to the degree of copperband butterfly and regal angel. I've had some local members that have tried and the fish refused food on several occasions.
     
  8. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Mine picked most of my sponges clean! Pineapple? Forget about it! :D

    Regals love pineapple too
     
  9. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    You are correct I am sure as many people get a lot of fish that don't eat. For some reason, maybe the age or bacteria in my tank, I rarely have that problem. Of course I don't buy fish on line so I have the opportunity to see them eat in the store. I have an old copperband now and have had many of them but I don't remember any of them not eating. I am not sure why I don't see that problem much. The Moorish Idol I discovered this local sponge so maybe that's why mine ate so well.
    3 weeks ago I got an orange spotted filefish which I know I shouldn't have gotten as I have had a few of them and they have a specialized diet that I probably can't do. The store got in 5 of them, one was dead in the box and the rest were in the process of getting last rites so they gave it to me. It is not a fish I had great hopes for but it has been 3 weeks and he is picking at mostly my montipora's and has not gotten any thinner. But I still don't have great hope that this fish will live for 10 years. :eek:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. becks

    becks Well-Known Member

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    I've never had a fish not eat either Paul, all ate straight away but then I've never purchased a fish online either, maybe the shipping process really stresses them out, especially the way they get handled by the couriers.
     
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  11. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    It could be that or it could be no one ever saw those fish eat but they ship them anyway. :rolleyes:
    I always see a fish eat before I buy it. Sometimes the store owner will say, "it just ate,
    or it is fasting for religious beliefs," But I want to see it eat. Of course, if it eats, I will buy it.
     
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  12. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I think that it may more likely be the type of fish and where you buy them from. Remember, LFS get their fish the same way. :shrug:
     
  13. Breakthecycle2

    Breakthecycle2 Valuable Member

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    Can someone post a pic of a "skinny" idol showing their backbone?
     
  14. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    IMG_2566.PNG
    This one has Ich as well. You can see both the lateral line and spine.

    I've seen them thinner than this, the more visible it is the more your work is cut out for you.
     
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  15. Breakthecycle2

    Breakthecycle2 Valuable Member

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    So it is the middle line? I thought so, but then where is the lateral line.
     
  16. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Angles upward just above it it's more faint
     
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  17. Black Pearl

    Black Pearl Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    IMG_7002.JPG A picture of mine when I first got him mid july
     
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  18. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Yep that's a good example as well. You did well to bring him back from that!
     
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  19. mcarroll

    mcarroll Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    Sorry for veering off the topic of the Moorish Idol, but I guess I can't help it when I read things like this...

    If your LFS is no good in your exprience, call them out if you want.

    But please remember you hurt *my* LFS (and probably all LFS's) by talking smack in general. You give a false impression of the situation to newbies.

    That said, you make an important point – I also see impulse buys too often.

    But do you know who asks even less questions than a hypothetical LFS?

    Online stores.

    All they ask is "what do you want?" and "how would you like to pay?"

    Bad enough. But what makes it worse is that there's no person involved – just a shopping cart site. So in reality there aren't any questions at all... :oops:

    For perspective, even PetsosmartCo asks some questions.

    (They used to send customers to the saltwater LFS where I worked, so I know they at least ask a few good questions occasionally....any regular LFS should be better than them.)

    What makes that even another level of worse is the typical live guarantee.

    As a consumer, there should definitely be exposure to risk when you order fish online....the guarantee does nothing for the fish, it just keeps happy customers in spite of all the dead animals. :(

    Wherever newbs get their impulse start, I wish there was a way to get to these people before they set up their tank. But unfortunately I think there's always going to be a percentage who will start off "cold" like that.

    It's not the same. The online players need a lot more scrutiny than they get from us instead of a free pass.

    LFS shipping model:
    1. Ocean
    2. Wholesale
    3. Retail

    Online shippipng model:
    1. Ocean
    2. Wholesale
    3. Retail
    4. Customer
    Even the LFS shipping model is extremely tough on the fish and results in a lot of mortality.

    Conscientiously adding another major leg of shipping to their journey is...not ideal...maybe even a little cruel in my opinion. It's one whole other shipment when they should be done and recuperating.....I personally think it's a terrible deal for the fish.

    I always wonder what the fill rate is for their live animal guarantee. How often does one happy online customer equal two captured wild animals with one dead in the trash? Or two dead? Blame the shipper, replace the animal, happy customer every time. Sad for the hobby.

    [/rant]
     
  20. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I agree with most of what you said, but the LFS I worked for got fish from the same suppliers that online retailers ship from such as QM. My local LFS do as well.

    PetSolutions, live aquaria, etc ship directly from QM thus omitting a step. Divers den adds another facility where they allegedly take care to transition fish to home aquaria life, get them feeding, and watch or potentially treat disease. In my opinion, that extra step is fine for me as I've had pretty good luck without DD.

    If my local lfs didn't have velvet running rampant in every tank, or had more than say a dozen fish to choose from I would be happy to buy locally.

    I have a good track record with many difficult keep fish but in my case it makes me more comfortable knowing I have two weeks (guarantee) to get it right. Personally it doesn't lead to poorer husbandry but your point is very valid. Economically speaking your logic is sound and I know many that do exactly as you describe.

    Again, for hard to keep species I am OK paying more for guarantees and removing one place of acclimation (and exposure to parasites). But for 99% of the hobby that does not purchase fish like this as often, it's very important to see the fish feeding at the store and examine it before purchase. Nothing can replace this benefit IMO.

    I certainly mean no disrespect for you and your LFS. Here in Indiana there's a limited market for this hobby and thus most of the LFS that exist are very small and poorly run probably because they are struggling financially.
     
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