Let's Talk Refugiums

JGoslee · Mar 4, 2011

Let's talk about refugiums. Who here has a refugium?

If you do have one....

1. How big is your refugium and how big is your display tank?

2. What do you keep in your refugium? (ie liverock, DSB, macro algae, mangrooves...)

3. How much light do you have over your refugium and are you using a reverse light cycle or 24/7?

4. How much flow is going through your refugium?

5. Have you had any long-term affects attributed to your refugium, positive or negative?

If you do not use a refugium what are your reasons?

fsu1dolfan · Mar 4, 2011

I unfortunately do not have one. I would love to but my tank is not drilled for overflows. My next bigger tank will definitely have one. There are so many benefits to having one.

Monroereef · Mar 4, 2011

In the process of setting up 350DT, 120G sump and 75G fuge.

Currently have a 150DT with 40G fuge.

Wy Renegade · Mar 4, 2011

1. How big is your refugium and how big is your display tank? Tank is a 65gal RR display, current sump is a 20gal compartmentalized sump/fuge with left to right flow through.

2. What do you keep in your refugium? (ie liverock, DSB, macro algae, mangrooves...): 1st chamber is blue filter pad over LR rubble, 1 heater, and HOB skimmer. 2nd chamber is SSB with chaeto ball and a large population of colonial feather dusters, few snails, and a ball of Chaeto. 3rd chamber is return pump.

3. How much light do you have over your refugium and are you using a reverse light cycle or 24/7? Single 10K Daylight CF bulb. Light is on a 12 daylight cycle, neither reverse lighting or 24/7

4. How much flow is going through your refugium? Approx. 900 gallons per hour

5. Have you had any long-term affects attributed to your refugium, positive or negative? Reduction of nitrates/phosphate levels, as well as removing equipment from main display.

I'm currently consider moving to a crytic fuge with feather dusters, worms, sponges, etc. If I did so, I would have to do some remoldeling and the fuge would sit in the closet behind the DT rather than below it. This would allow for the addition of a ATO as well as a chiller. Might also increase overall return flow.

The 65gal RR is drilled with a single overflow and return. Anybody have any idea how high I push the overflow/return volume on this?

divewsharks · Mar 5, 2011

My fuge is some lr and chaeto; lit on a reverse cycle by a simple cf bulb from home depot. Approximately 400gph.
No negative effects, pods for food, phosphate/nitrate reduction and helps with stable ph at night.

JGoslee · Mar 5, 2011

Wy Renegade said:
I'm currently consider moving to a crytic fuge with feather dusters, worms, sponges, etc. If I did so, I would have to do some remoldeling and the fuge would sit in the closet behind the DT rather than below it. This would allow for the addition of a ATO as well as a chiller. Might also increase overall return flow.

The 65gal RR is drilled with a single overflow and return. Anybody have any idea how high I push the overflow/return volume on this?

I'm not to familiar with cryptic refugiums. Is it just a fuge without light or is there more to it? Would you also be keeping your SSB and cheato ball in a seperate section?

Anthony Calfo · Mar 5, 2011

1. How big is your refugium and how big is your display tank?

* like public aquaria, I try to have a 1:1 ratio with the display and use the refuguim like a worthy display in its own right. The work it does and the extra volume of water it hlds is immensely helpful for keeping a large fish load in the display. As such, the heavier fish load feeds (fish waste0 the corals that much better...second only to lagoonal detritus really for gorwing corals fast.

2. What do you keep in your refugium? (ie liverock, DSB, macro algae, mangrooves...)

* usually sand for nitrate control int he system and adding some minerals by dissolving. A DSB in refugia is far easier to maintain than in the display with brighter lights and heavier water flow.

3. How much light do you have over your refugium and are you using a reverse light cycle or 24/7?

* suited for the needs of whatever is in there. If its just a sponge (cryptic) and nitrate reducing DSB...no light at all. Just moderate flow to prevent solids from sinking. Very easy and very effective filtration that way. But a tumbling chaeto ball instead might need around 5 watts per gallon. Seagrasses a bit more (plus stronger flow)

4. How much flow is going through your refugium?

closer to display volume: 30-60X minimum. Slow flow refugia just become cesspools. Slow flow for refugia has been a bad piece of misinformation for too many years.

5. Have you had any long-term affects attributed to your refugium, positive or negative?

many, many benefits. Legitimate plankton production in the absence of fishes (like the display usually)...tremendous pH stability, especially with RDP photoperiod, tremendous mineral/buffer supplementation (more than half of tanks daily needs ) with fine sand (under 2mm grains) dissolving with a half-life so to speak of 18-24 months (read: 6" bed dissolves down to 3" by 2years old), ability to keep numerous plan and invert species in refugia that cold not survive in the display, etcetera

If you do not use a refugium what are your reasons?

* NOTE: for critics that say DSBs become nutrient sinks, I'd respectfully note that you are mistaken: mismanaged substrates of any kind (any grain or depth) become nutrient sinks when they don"t have adequate water flow that keeps solids in suspension for better filter feeding ops by your inverts, better opps for the skimmer to export, etc. but its not a sand problem...it's a flow problem. And most of us commonly have inadequate flow or flow that becomes inadequate from having high spots in some places but dead spots in other (very common when relying on stream pumps). DSBs and sand in refugia are particularly great for tanks with softies and LPS. For strict shallow water sps tanks (think Acros not Montis), bare bottom may be better indeed for various reasons...and a different thread

Wy Renegade · Mar 5, 2011

JGoslee said:
I'm not to familiar with cryptic refugiums. Is it just a fuge without light or is there more to it? Would you also be keeping your SSB and cheato ball in a seperate section?

Jesse, the cryptic refugium is a fuge that is kept in the dark and relies on LR and sponges, worms, and other micro and macro fauna to filter and clean the water. In my understanding, it can be combined with a DSB for nitrate reduction, but I haven't been able to get a lot of input on that aspect. What I'm considering at this point, is a seperate tank off the main fuge (SSB and Cheato) after the water passes through the chiller.

Anthony nice info! You always put so much time and info into your posts, thank you so much for your active participation and your informative contributions.

Tabasco1 · Mar 5, 2011

1. How big is your refugium and how big is your display tank? 45G cube RR, sump is a DYI 20gal compartmentalized sump/fuge with left to right flow through.

2. What do you keep in your refugium? (ie liverock, DSB, macro algae, mangrooves...): Current plan is 1st chamber 3 shelf media pass through. shelf 1 will be mechanical, shelf 2 will be carbon, shelf 3 phosban, this will over flow half into the skimmer/heater chamber half into the fuge, both of these will overflow into the return. Plan to keep assorted macro (not caulpera) some LR rubble, few snails and hopefully a plethora of pods. Thought was to have water go into the fuge that was not polished with the skimmer. Would appreciate thoughts on this. Also originally planned on SSB, but after reading Athony's post will look into a DSB. Fuge will hold about 5G of water. Sump total will hold about 12G.

3. How much light do you have over your refugium and are you using a reverse light cycle or 24/7? Haven't nailed this down, but plan was a simple daylight bulb, was leaning toward 6500k on a reverse lighting cycle as DT

4. How much flow is going through your refugium? Not sure yet or even how to measure. I have a large return pump for my tank and will have to throttle it back. I have to look but believe it is a Mag 9.

5. Have you had any long-term affects attributed to your refugium, positive or negative? Will let you know! But hoping for positive

JGoslee · Mar 5, 2011

Anthony thanks for your informative post. Do you find that running just a Deep Sand Bed with sponges and other cryptic inverts is as effective as a Deep Sand Bed, live rock and Cheato?

sprinklerdudes · Mar 6, 2011

my rfugium sit up by my disply, it houses several different kinds of macro algea, tons of pods, shrimp brittle stars etc, bottom media is left over ceramic rings out of a couple of large canisster filters I had laying around, love my refugium, used to have a cryptic fuge as well tied off the main sump, will be upgrading to a large sump soon, and will be readding the cryptic fuge, I think it really helps to have all the extra pods etc , its like free fish food, and extra filtration all in one, whats not to like ?

Anthony Calfo · Mar 11, 2011

Anthony thanks for your informative post. Do you find that running just a Deep Sand Bed with sponges and other cryptic inverts is as effective as a Deep Sand Bed, live rock and Cheato?

the reality is that one of the only things DSBs do at all - albeit very well - is nitrate reduction. Even as a fan of DSBs I'll admit they don't do many of the things folks claim they do (namely, massive food production). Over time the y can be a great support (not sole support...but significant) for buffering. They are quickly and reliably over time a great vector for denitrifying faculties. But beyond that we have to talk point by point on benefits - perceived and otherwise - with living sand beds.

butts182 · Mar 11, 2011

I don't have one in my current setup because I personally think that a really large fuge is needed for it to work correctly...with that being said, i used to run a 5g fuge on my 30g tank...i had 12 or 18?? watts of pc light above it, had a Rio 1700 for a return pump, so that was how much flow went through it, I kept chaeto (although it never grew so I got rid of it) and went with 2 species of caulerpa (feather and another one) that I collected in the ICW...I noticed an increased red algae growing in my sump with the fuge...this along with the mess it made and detritus sink, made me get rid of it

Troylee · Mar 11, 2011

none.... straight sump bare bottom to house equipment and add extra water volume.... that's all i need and it works best for me.....i am very lazy and hate cleaning so bare bottom and high flow is the way to go!!!!!!!!

swannyson7 · Mar 11, 2011

1. How big is your refugium and how big is your display tank?
My refugium is approximately 15 gallons, and my DT is 180.
2. What do you keep in your refugium? (ie liverock, DSB, macro algae, mangrooves...)
Liverock rubble, chaeto, xenia
3. How much light do you have over your refugium and are you using a reverse light cycle or 24/7?
I use a PAR 38 in a reflector from HD and run it 24/7
4. How much flow is going through your refugium?
Unsure, one of my drain lines (1" PVC) has a half inch tee coming off of it. Pretty low flow, though.
5. Have you had any long-term affects attributed to your refugium, positive or negative?
This tank has only been set up since August and I've always run GFO & EcoBak, so not really sure.