Losing the Dino Battle

jeep454

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I have posted a few threads prior to this and since then I have been losing the battle. To sum up the beginning of the battle....
Noticed the dreaded brown substrate and film on walls and bought a microscope to confirm or deny Dinos.
Confirmed Dinos and tested water to see if nitrates and Phosphate bottomed out. Interestingly enough Phosphates were at 0.0 and Nitrates were at 15ppm. Regardless I tried everything besides blackout which is risky as I have GSP, Xenia, and a Condy. Also have not added a refugium since I do not have another light.
I ran PhosGuard to remove any Silicates while dosing Phosphate to keep Phosphate detectable. I siphoned substrate and siphoned anything scraped off walls into a 5 micron filter sock to avoid a water change since I know a water change could make things worse. I dosed Seed by Seachem to give Dinos some competition. I have even been using phyto.
All of this with no success.
I understand with the photosynthetic livestock in the tank i can run a blackout for a week MAX. Is this something i should do or does anyone have other recommendations? I also have not used chemical warfare (i.e chemiclean, Dinox etc)
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Matt Bravo

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Trust me, I got rid of 2 month old Dino’s in a matter of 2 weeks. Get your phosphate up and nitrates too. Dinos THRIVE in low nutrient environments. I would stop trying to chemically treat it and let the nutrients rise.

Also I don’t recall seeing Dino’s grow on glass much. I see them mainly on the sand bed so maybe it’s a mix of diatoms and gha instead of Dino’s?
 

Matt Bravo

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Trust me, I got rid of 2 month old Dino’s in a matter of 2 weeks. Get your phosphate up and nitrates too. Dinos THRIVE in low nutrient environments. I would stop trying to chemically treat it and let the nutrients rise.

Also I don’t recall seeing Dino’s grow on glass much. I see them mainly on the sand bed so maybe it’s a mix of diatoms and gha instead of Dino’s?
Also are you using rodi water?
 
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jeep454

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The stuff on the walls looks like regular film algae. How quickly does it come back after you scrape it?
Comes back in a couple days and yes that is one thing I left out. After ID under microscope glass had a combination of Dinos and Algae while the substrate was just Dinos.
 
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jeep454

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Trust me, I got rid of 2 month old Dino’s in a matter of 2 weeks. Get your phosphate up and nitrates too. Dinos THRIVE in low nutrient environments. I would stop trying to chemically treat it and let the nutrients rise.

Also I don’t recall seeing Dino’s grow on glass much. I see them mainly on the sand bed so maybe it’s a mix of diatoms and gha instead of Dino’s?
Yes, I left out that after ID under microscope glass scrapings had a combination of Dinos and Algae while substrate was just Dinos. But there were definitely Dinos moving around.
 

Kmst80

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Stop the use of phosguard. Silica is your friend to get rid of dinos.
Keep nitrates above 10, phosphate around 0.1, test and dose daily if you have to. Dose silicate if you can but don't overdose, diatoms will grow and compete with dinos. Keep sucking out dinos in 5 micron filtersock again to give the other algae a chance to get ahead. Imo blackout is waste of time.
It's not going to go away in a couple of days, but if you keep doing these things you will win this battle. That green film is not dinos, just algae growing from you dosing phyto. Don't give up.
 

lel

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How long have you had the dino? I had the same problem with dino and it disappeared after a week or two.
 

Salo001

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Things that I am 100% sure helped get rid of my dinos and I will always use when they are in a tank are:
1. Nutrients above 0 they don't have to be super high bu phosphates above .05 and nitrates above 5. This will feed other organisms that will fight the dinos. 2. A properly sized UV. This will prevent dinos from reproducing and sometimes kill them outright if they are able to leave the sand bed
3. Silicate dosing. Use diatoms to outcompetes the dinos. Once you start seeing diatoms in your samples u can start blowing off all the dinos so they can go through your filter socks and UV and the diatoms will end up outcompeting them.

This is what I did. I had LCA and Small cell.
 

The_Paradox

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Yes, I left out that after ID under microscope glass scrapings had a combination of Dinos and Algae while substrate was just Dinos. But there were definitely Dinos moving around.

It’s the ratio that’s important. There are always dinoflagellates the question is how out of control are they. To me that does not look like anything I would worry about. Monitor for worsening but that looks fine to me as others have said.
 

EricR

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You mentioned dino ID under microscope but didn't mention which type of dinoflagellates (unless I just missed it).
*different methods work better for different types of dinoflagellates so positive ID is usually a good first step

EDIT -- here's one of numerous threads that may be of interest:
Dinoflagellate Treatment
 
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lel

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Turbo, Trochus, and other snails, will help deal with it, Tuxedo urchins are very good too.
 

Matt Bravo

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Turbo, Trochus, and other snails, will help deal with it, Tuxedo urchins are very good too.
Ime, inverts are a more expensive solution to Dino’s. Since the e algae itself is toxic I had a bunch of snails die off after about a week of consuming. Yeah it’s a solution but there’s other ways of handling it
 

vetteguy53081

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I have posted a few threads prior to this and since then I have been losing the battle. To sum up the beginning of the battle....
Noticed the dreaded brown substrate and film on walls and bought a microscope to confirm or deny Dinos.
Confirmed Dinos and tested water to see if nitrates and Phosphate bottomed out. Interestingly enough Phosphates were at 0.0 and Nitrates were at 15ppm. Regardless I tried everything besides blackout which is risky as I have GSP, Xenia, and a Condy. Also have not added a refugium since I do not have another light.
I ran PhosGuard to remove any Silicates while dosing Phosphate to keep Phosphate detectable. I siphoned substrate and siphoned anything scraped off walls into a 5 micron filter sock to avoid a water change since I know a water change could make things worse. I dosed Seed by Seachem to give Dinos some competition. I have even been using phyto.
All of this with no success.
I understand with the photosynthetic livestock in the tank i can run a blackout for a week MAX. Is this something i should do or does anyone have other recommendations? I also have not used chemical warfare (i.e chemiclean, Dinox etc)
20230915_225929.jpg

20230915_225917.jpg
This looks to me to be film algae with diatom. As for nutrients, when we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more. Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure but i still believe -film algae. You can shave off with an old credit card or similar and add snails such as cerith-astrea-turbo- and nerite. They will help with control.
 

Idech

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You need to know what type and treat accordingly. Are you dosing phyto ? If so it can cause algae on the glass.

If you have prorocentrum (and LCA I believe), then you need to dose silicate. It takes time to see results. It took me 3 months the first time, and about 5 months the second time. You also need to avoid water changes while treating, or make very small ones.

It took me 18 months to get rid of three different dino episodes. Mine weren’t severe but very persistent. So don’t get discouraged, you’ll get there.
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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Ime, inverts are a more expensive solution to Dino’s. Since the e algae itself is toxic I had a bunch of snails die off after about a week of consuming. Yeah it’s a solution but there’s other ways of handling it
I'm still not convinced there's a dino problem at all (in the OP's tank)
 

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