Low Water Chemistry .. comments/suggestions?

[RoadGlideRon]

11 Weeks in:

So, my tideline 62g has been running for 10 weeks now. In addition to the 2 Clowns, Mean Green, and Rainbow Zoas, we purchased 6 Nassirus Snails, 1 Angry Conch, a Fire & Ice, and Bam Bam Zoas.

The Rainbow Zoa has been tightly closed for about 10 days.. i believe that there just isn't enough food for that coral.. all the other corals are ok.. just not the rainbow.

Feeding: I have been over feeding my clowns to help supplement the nitrates in the water.. but this has not helped at all.. i use both frozen mysys shrimp, and pellets for feeding both clowns and zoas. i just take a cube of shrimp, place in a cup with some tank water, suck out the 'juice' w/a syringe, power down all the pumps and target feed the zoas. Clowns are fed twice daily, zoas every 2 to 3 days.

Due to our tank being cycled and a very low bio-load, the water values are still bottomed out. ACTUALLY, not really at zero, but the Sera test says zero. Since the tank has been so low.. for so long, we've decided to use SEACHEM Nitrogen Flourish to supplement the water for the Zoas. Dosing: Yesterday morning we added 3ml from a syringe, dropped directly into the Orbit 2 flow in 'drops', dosed over about 5 minutes. Testing: After 3 hours, we tested the water parameters and they still are zero. This said, i believe that the sand, rock, and zoas just ate that nitrogen right up.

So for today, giving the tank 'settling' time, then tomorrow AM, if water is still at zero for 'nitrates' we'll dose 2.5ml for nitrogen, and test in 2 to 3 hours to see where the values are. This will be the dosing until the 4 wrasses arrive in 3.5 to 4 weeks.

ALL this said, i have a lid for the tideline ordered from TOPLIDS (about 3.5 to 4 week delivery, and am in contact with DrReefs for the 4 Wrasses that will be here just after the lid arrives...

COMMENTS/SUGGESTIONS... ?

ron- (go dodgers!)

 

[Tahoe61]

Just go slow and follow the directions on the nitrate product. It took a couple days for the nitrate value to come up in my tanks. But the value can get ahead of you fast especially in smaller tanks. I use Neophos and NeoNitro.
Congratulations on the pending wrasse. You're going to need a lid right from the start.

 

[mcarroll]

for so long, we've decided to use SEACHEM Nitrogen Flourish to supplement the water for the Zoas.

If nutrient levels being out of whack is really what's causing your zoa's to close (which is questionable....make sure you're sure) then just dosing NO3 could take a bad situation and make it worse.

Can you post your actual test numbers for whatever values you are testing?

 

[RoadGlideRon]

If nutrient levels being out of whack is really what's causing your zoa's to close (which is questionable....make sure you're sure) then just dosing NO3 could take a bad situation and make it worse.

Can you post your actual test numbers for whatever values you are testing?

well... i have a Sera Test kit. As i looked this morning during the testing.. the FIRST increment is at 10 ppm. i need an instrument that tests between 0 and 5 ppm for N03.

suggestions?

ron-

 

[landlubber]

Have you considered adding another fish to raise the bioload?
Dumping more and more food doesn't result in a whole lot of nitrate production if the fish are disinterested or unable to physically unable to consume, digest and create the waste you're looking for.
Also consider that as your tank matures the demand for nutrients increases as corals and coraline algae both consume it.
I personally am lukewarm on Nitrate dosing as it inevitably is going to cause your alkalinity to dip and lose the stability we're all trying to keep up.

 

[Uncle99]

well... i have a Sera Test kit. As i looked this morning during the testing.. the FIRST increment is at 10 ppm. i need an instrument that tests between 0 and 5 ppm for N03.

suggestions?

ron-

I’m not a fan of any strip multi tests, or and multi test kits. While they work, there usually not fine enough.

It’s very hard to reach zeroes on nutrients.

The only test that ever worked for me for phosphate is the Hanna. All others read only .25ppm or 0ppm.
There are two reasond. First is the amount in waters is so so small and secondly, the colour change is way way way to faint to discern .05ppm to .25ppm.

Salifert, Hanna, Aquaforest all good with nitrate, easy to read colour.

Get a good test kit so your making the correct decision.

While nitrate and phosphate are important indicators, corals first choice is light and also micro organisms which are feeding on phosphate and in turn, being consumed by corals.

This process can be months down the road.

 

[BryanM]

Get a hanna tested for Nitrates.

 

[RoadGlideRon]

I’m not a fan of any strip multi tests, or and multi test kits. While they work, there usually not fine enough.

It’s very hard to reach zeroes on nutrients.

The only test that ever worked for me for phosphate is the Hanna. All others read only .25ppm or 0ppm.
There are two reasond. First is the amount in waters is so so small and secondly, the colour change is way way way to faint to discern .05ppm to .25ppm.

Salifert, Hanna, Aquaforest all good with nitrate, easy to read colour.

Get a good test kit so your making the correct decision.

While nitrate and phosphate are important indicators, corals first choice is light and also micro organisms which are feeding on phosphate and in turn, being consumed by corals.

This process can be months down the road.

i just bought the Hanna LR test kit.. it'll arrive on sunday.

r-

 

[mcarroll]

well... i have a Sera Test kit. As i looked this morning during the testing.. the FIRST increment is at 10 ppm. i need an instrument that tests between 0 and 5 ppm for N03.

suggestions?

ron-

I might be confused by this comment – you're targeting ≥ 5 ppm...what's wrong with the test you have? We don't need a super precise result, just **repeatable** results, which most kits on the market will deliver.

So if your current NO3 test is reading "0-5 ppm" then you can assume it's low enough that you should stop taking action to lower it further.

The remaining question is what the PO4 level is like. This is what you need to know before you dose anything for N.

If PO4 also "looks like zero" then it's crucial that you should NOT dose NO3 until you can also dose PO4 first/at the same time.

None of that requires precision testing...

 

[RoadGlideRon]

the sera test kit has colors for zero, 10, ..... so i needed something that has a low range.. so i got the hanna 781LR test kit.

 

[Fish Fan]

Let's back some of this up for a minute

11 Weeks in:

So, my tideline 62g has been running for 10 weeks now.

Your tank is literally a newborn baby at 10 weeks. Tanks will continue to mature and balance out as they mature. At 10 weeks in I would not yet be trying to dose nitrate or anything else; I'd give this more time to decide if you need to raise nitrate.

If you DO decide that you need to dose nitrate or anything for that matter, many of the Seachem products are thought to be rather weak solutions. There's easy to make DIY recipes to raise nitrate, as well as dose other parameters if/when needed.

The Rainbow Zoa has been tightly closed for about 10 days.. i believe that there just isn't enough food for that coral

Zoas have a much more limited feeding response compared to many other corals, they can mostly just use light to grow. With that in mind, I don't think "lack of food" is what's bothering your Zoa. I would look towards lighting and flow first, and then see if there could be any kind of pest or another critter annoying it.

This said, i believe that the sand, rock, and zoas just ate that nitrogen right up.

Your rock and sand won't "eat" nitrate. Denitrification happens only deep inside very, very dense rocks and in a much more mature tanks, if that can happen in a typical home aquarium at all, which is the subject of some debate.

Your rock and sand can and will bind and release phosphate. Phosphate is really important to coral health, and I agree with @mcarroll that we really need to know that parameter.

Also helpful here would be a full tank picture, as well as pics of the Zoa you're having trouble with. Knowing what you're using for salt mix, what salinity you're running, what lighting and flow you've got would also help.

Good luck!

 

[Fish Fan]

the sera test kit has colors for zero, 10, ..... so i needed something that has a low range.. so i got the hanna 781LR test kit.

Just to double check, are you trying to target a nitrate range between 0.00 ppm and 5.00 ppm? If so, I believe this range is too low. I follow the guidelines from Randy Holmes-Farley on what parameter ranges to target found at the following link. From that link, he suggest a target range for nitrate from 5.00 ppm to 50.00 ppm. While some reefers will contest that some delicate SPS corals seem to do better (for them) at lower nitrate levels, Zoas, on the other hand, are thought to do best in water that's sometimes called "dirty", meaning high nutrients (nitrate and phosphate).

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/

I hope this helps!