Major issues...help wanted

[acer]

I meant infection that did NOT affect fish and BTA. Sorry...

If his TDS was high wouldn't his po4 , be high?

 

[KingBlingTX]

You might try sending a water sample in for a Triton test just to see if anything glaring shows up there.

 

[Ross]

I was having the same issue, and my alk was also in the low 8's, same as the OP. All other params in the usual ranges. I went to a calcium reactor two weeks ago instead of dosing and my alk got as high as 12 while trying to dial in the reactor. I'm still not getting much PE, but my stn appears to be reversing and my coralline is spreading like mad, so at this point Alk in the low 8's has been proven to be too low. Since your tank is low nutrient, I'm assuming you'll want to be extra diligent about feeding your coral as well.

BTW I tried upping my nutrients, same as you into similar ranges, but that ended up being a dead end. Low alk was more the issue than low N and P.

Having said that, I doubt that's the only issue at play. In my case, that's why I'm upping my feedings. After a year I finally have the systems in place to keep N and P in the ULNS zone, I've now got my alk a little higher, so the next step is just to feed the buggers.

Right now I'm hesitant to do that, mainly because I'm getting burn tips. Which from what I've read typically means alk is too high. What are you running mag and calcium at? I may try upping my mag into the 1300's.

Have you checked your system for anything from that is rusting? Magnets from frag racks, split open impellers so on. Also any cheap stainless steel that rusts will leach other heavy metals into the tank that sps do not cope with.

I have not thorougly checked, I recently took my mag float out completely to see if that was an issue. I think you could be on to something though, I'm going to go through and check my return pump and skimmer pump. Other than that, I only have 3 vortechs. Is there anything else that could be rusting? I dont recall ever dropping a screw or any metal into the tank.

You need to start with water man. Always the first place I start to troubleshoot.
can you tell us a little about your ro/di? How you use it, what your tap water is and what your tds tolerances are?

In my experience. poor rodi or improper use can lead to many of the problems people end up scratching their heads over.

At the very least it's always the first place I start when I trouble shoot.

Thanks for responding Adam, I was hoping you would read this thread. I've always admired your stuff on your website. I am running just a normal 4 stage ro/di from BRS. I notice that I do exhaust the DI resin fairly quick, and always change it before the entire thing turns brown. I couldn't tell you what my TDS is, haven't tested them. Do you think that could be causing my issue? I'm relatively certain i must be getting some TDS, but I would bet its low based on how often I change the filters. Do you think the garden hose or metal fittings on the hose could be leaching something into my water before it runs through the ro/di?

 

[Ross]

You might try sending a water sample in for a Triton test just to see if anything glaring shows up there.

Great idea, I actually ordered one a few weeks ago and sent it off today. I'm hoping something comes back blatantly wrong..

 

[Vaughn17]

I just recetly got them up, they were undetectable for the longest time. Lots of folks seem to run lots of sps with nitrates in the 10 range, but I'd rather them be around 2. I think one issue could be the imbalance between nitrates and phosphates. Nitrates tested pretty high today, while phosphates came in at basically 0.

I agree, if your phosphates are 0.001 they are too low. One thing I've learned the hard way about acros is that they don't have all those polyps for nothing.

 

[Tateopotatoe]

I would consider lowering your salinity. 0.2026 is the salinity closest to too salty, so if your not religious with top-offs something could easily go wrong.

 

[jsker]

Sorry, Balling Method here is a short youtube video. I was have some of the same issues you have and I was fighting high Po4's. I noticed after doing a bunch of water changes how my corals started coming back to life. The down side of doing the water changes is that I striped the bio load and stressed my fish and lost a bunch of livestock. then I started dosing Reef color Ca, Mg, kalwasser, No3Po4-x and was quite happy. Then someone pointed out the balling method and the product that I am using now, and much simpler is was to use. I gave the method a try and I am very happy I made the change even with my old LED's I saw a big difference.

 

[McMullen]

On the Alk subject, I have had three big Sps crashes and all from big Alk swings. It seems when my Alk has been way out of param for several days it takes weeks for me to notice signs of recovery. Also, every tank has a sweet spot, mine is maintaining alk between 8.5-9, but aiming for 9. Your range may be a bit higher or lower. Just make slow adjustments, as Im sure you already are.

I hope Triton comes back with something crazy too, so frustrating dealing with coral that are failing and not knowing what direction to go!!

 

[smh254]

I thought all my parameters were in line until I sent my water to triton. Got my test back and every thing was fine except My K (potassium). Got my potassium up to 410 from 320 and everything started coloring back up. This is all I have. Good luck

 

[WVReefJunkie]

The burnt tips of your sps is caused by alk swings. Also how much mag are you dosing, you shouldnt have to dose that often if you are keeping your salinity in spec. I would look at your lighting to be a issue, can you check your water for par readings?

 

[jcdeng]

all great advices here. I will add to it, do you have any HA growth in your tank or sump? or chaetos, are they growing? if not, your tank is missing nutrients.

 

[Ross]

I agree, if your phosphates are 0.001 they are too low. One thing I've learned the hard way about acros is that they don't have all those polyps for nothing.

Is there a reliable way to raise phosphates without raising nitrates? My understanding is they kind of go hand in hand when your using the "over feed the heck out of your tank" method I've been using.

Sorry, Balling Method here is a short youtube video. I was have some of the same issues you have and I was fighting high Po4's. I noticed after doing a bunch of water changes how my corals started coming back to life. The down side of doing the water changes is that I striped the bio load and stressed my fish and lost a bunch of livestock. then I started dosing Reef color Ca, Mg, kalwasser, No3Po4-x and was quite happy. Then someone pointed out the balling method and the product that I am using now, and much simpler is was to use. I gave the method a try and I am very happy I made the change even with my old LED's I saw a big difference.

Thanks for the video. I have considered going balling, also considered going full triton or full zeo but I haven't pulled the trigger yet

On the Alk subject, I have had three big Sps crashes and all from big Alk swings. It seems when my Alk has been way out of param for several days it takes weeks for me to notice signs of recovery. Also, every tank has a sweet spot, mine is maintaining alk between 8.5-9, but aiming for 9. Your range may be a bit higher or lower. Just make slow adjustments, as Im sure you already are.

I hope Triton comes back with something crazy too, so frustrating dealing with coral that are failing and not knowing what direction to go!!

Your probably right, I would just expect things to stabilize and stop losing tissue when I got my alk stable. Due to a faulty Hanna reagent I was getting readings in the low 6s and high 5s so I kept upping my dosages, finally figured there is no way this can be right, and borrowed a salifert kit, noticed I was in the 9s. Since then I have dropped it to high 7s and am holding solid, but I may drop to low 7s to see if that helps. Would you consider that a swing big enough to kill stuff?

I thought all my parameters were in line until I sent my water to triton. Got my test back and every thing was fine except My K (potassium). Got my potassium up to 410 from 320 and everything started coloring back up. This is all I have. Good luck

I'm hoping I get something back like you did. Did you notice the potassium had an affect on your montis? And how do you dose potassium? Or is it just in water changes ?

The burnt tips of your sps is caused by alk swings. Also how much mag are you dosing, you shouldnt have to dose that often if you are keeping your salinity in spec. I would look at your lighting to be a issue, can you check your water for par readings?

I haven't stopped losing tissue since alk has been stable, almost a week. Is it normal for stuff to comtinue to stn for that long? As for mag, I was manually dosing about 5ml a day. I set up a dosing pump for it last night, primed the line and set it for 5 Ml a day. Will test again this afternoon to see where I am.

 

[Ross]

all great advices here. I will add to it, do you have any HA growth in your tank or sump? or chaetos, are they growing? if not, your tank is missing nutrients.

Thanks jc, I have a small amount of hair algae that grows in my overflow, none at all in the display. I think my purple tang keeps any algae down. I have a fairly bad case of bubble algae that I added a bunch of emeralds for. Other than that I only get film algae on my glass, only have to clean it every few days.

 

[jcdeng]

Thanks jc, I have a small amount of hair algae that grows in my overflow, none at all in the display. I think my purple tang keeps any algae down. I have a fairly bad case of bubble algae that I added a bunch of emeralds for. Other than that I only get film algae on my glass, only have to clean it every few days.

Hmmm, film algae means your nutrients are good. What return pump/skimmer are you using? Ever clean them and check for rust screws?

 

[Ross]

Hmmm, film algae means your nutrients are good. What return pump/skimmer are you using? Ever clean them and check for rust screws?

I'm using a mag 9 return and a reed octopus skimmer. I'll check them for rust today. I have noticed that my skimmer barely pulls anything. Not sure if that's my skimmer or my water

 

[jcdeng]

I have read a few threads about mag returns having rust screws, not sure if thats your issue but definitely check those screws.

Skimmer not pulling anything can be result of oversized skimmer, skimmer water level, your tank too clean or salinity.

 

[McMullen]

My experience with alk swings is that Sps don't tolerate swings in the low range well. For Sps, once they begin STN process they may recover but It takes weeks. This is probably more true for seratapora, millis, and acros, IMO at least.

 

[ngvu1]

Many people keep mentioning the rust causes or might be the cause of SPS to rtn or stn. We run GFO which is RUST is it? If you ask Roger at Tunze, you will get a different answer. Anyway, I am following along as well as my buddy was asking these questions why his SPS bleach and stn and I have no clue how to explain either as their parameters are in checked.

 

[markalot]

A lot of advice here, good advice, but I'm stuck on one thing. This is long, sorry, and considering the fact my tank is suffering at the moment the advice may or may not be worth the paper it's not printed on. :D I am also parroting some good advice I have been given that I think works.

I've been holding these levels for a couple weeks now. Phosphate just registered as '1' on hanna ulr.

I'm in the same boat, something went wrong, no idea what, but it's over and now comes the waiting. 2 weeks is nothing, unfortunately, it may take months. You have acros that will recover and acros that are zombies and will wither away. Keep things stable, no sudden corrections, and it will slowly come back IMO.

Some other things that stick out.

The Alks wing is probably what did the damage, I rose from 7.2 to 8.5 and it was after that when everything started to dive. PO4 was .15 so I added GFO, dropped PO4 too fast and stressed out everything that wasn't stressed out by the Alk swing.

No excuse for not having a handheld temperature correcting TDS meter and testing every time you use the RODI. $30 from amazon, less that the cost of most SPS. You should also regularly test the output from the RO membrane before it gets to the DI filter. Ideally water leaving the membrane will be <5 TDS, preferably something like 2 TDS. The higher this number is the faster your DI will exhaust. The RO membrane is protected by a sediment filter and then the carbon filter. Both should be high quality and replaced on a regular basis. If output from the RO membrane is too high it might be damaged and need replacing. They should last a long time as long as the cheaper sediment and carbon filters are kept fresh.

IMO, get yourself some test corals so you can see what is happening with the tank now instead of trying to determine tank health with the hurt corals. Green Birdsnest is a good one, will be puffy and grow too fast when tank params are good, will die faster than an acro when Alk swings, and hates it when PO4 is too low.

My red cap is the same way. It went pale and started to die. I moved a piece to my smaller tank and it recovered (pale to deep red) within a week. Only when I gave up trying to drive PO4 down too low and did numerous big water changes (watch for KH swings if you use a high KH salt)) did both the cap and the green bird perk back up. Some acros have color coming back, some still look stressed, others are still receding and honestly will probably die.

Don't switch to a heavy feeding regime quickly, you have to go slow like with everything else. If you start to feed heavily parameters will swing and will stress out some corals. I've made this mistake as well. Stability means stability with everything. In my case my export wasn't good enough and my skimmer decided to become unstable so obviously I was swinging PO4 and nitrates all over the place while the tank got used to a heavier nutrient load. Add this to KH stress on top of starving corals and all kinds of problems can happen.

I've read where there are some people who can swing KH all over the place without their acros showing any stress. I believe it, but only if everything else is stable. This is why IMO, you can get a lot of different and seemingly inconsistent advice from folks who have experienced different outcomes in their tanks. Any single parameter out of whack may not be an issue if everything else is stable.

 

[Ross]

Good call, I def need a TDS meter. Do I also need to order calibration fluid?