Metal Halide - A fading technology?

[ronnie]

I'm wondering if the LEDs I'm getting are going to display the same dimness that the Crees do. They are a higher kelvin LED, so they may end up being brighter. It'll be a good test for sure.

That is the other reason I wanted to get a PAR meter, was to replicate the same levels (lower starting out) of light for the tank and see where that puts me.

 

[bct15]

I think it is possible that corals may be bleaching like that under LEDs due to the extreme intensity at a single wavelength that the corals are not used to, versus a broader spectrum produced by a MH. I have read about corals kept under 250w 10k lighting bleaching when moved to 150w 20k and it was believed to be caused by the magnitude of the spectrum being greater at certain "sensitive" wavelengths under the 20k bulbs. The percieved brightness of the bulbs, one may seem brighter but the dimmer looking bulb is, in fact, more crucially intense to the corals.

 

[28g nano noob]

im a mh fan over any thing nothing gives the shimmer of mh lighting leds u can see the single different colors under water were with mh its a nice shimmer

 

[Paul B]

It is great to see an "old salty" adopting new technology.

I may be old but I remember exactly when every piece of "new technology" came out.
I have not been in a coma since you guys were born.
As different systems were invented, I researched them and in some cases, tried them.
After decades, I like what I have now. IMO in a few years LEDs will be the only lighting you will be able to buy for "any" application from auto headlights to under kitchen cabinets.
It's a no brainer. They run cool, last forever, are cheap, waterproof, available in all colors, dimmable, small and very very efficient. What is not to like?

I even broke all the cabin lights on my boat, on purpose and soldered in LEDs to the old brass bulb bases. They are brighter than the bulbs I was using on the boat and they only cost about $3.50 to make.
And when I get time, I will throw all of those CFL bulbs in my house and make all LEDs

 

[ronnie]

don't take offense Paul - none was meant if I did offend - I meant it to be a compliment - but my keyboard has trouble conveying that sometimes.

What I thought in my brain but didn't type was this: It is great to see someone with so many years of experience having success with LEDs. Especially given the fact that you have been able to do what most haven't - tried everything previously.

 

[Paul B]

don't take offense Paul - none was meant if I did offend

Take offense to what?
I took it as a compliment :bigsmile:.
And besides, I can't be offended on a fish site. It's just fish :angel:

 

[ronnie]

Cool - someday somebody will invent a keyboard that portrays emotion.... :tongue:

I've been in the hobby for ten years now. I started with PC, and then moved to 175W MH with VHO supplement. Then I left the hobby for a bit and came back and ran MH because I knew that technology worked. I've been running T5s for the last year or so, and have seen pretty much equal growth compared to MH. And at half the energy costs.

My move to LEDs is something that I've been considering for some time. I've finally found justification with an even lower electric bill and no more bulb changes for a few years at least. I'm also hoping that less heat will equate into less air conditioning in the house - but we'll see once I get it all done. I'm not worried about my heaters for the tanks, as my tanks run around 81.5 even at night.

 

[Paul B]

im a mh fan over any thing nothing gives the shimmer of mh lighting leds u can see the single different colors under water were with mh its a nice shimmer

I also don't agree with this. As I look at my tank now with half blue and half white LEDs I see a beautiful shimmer that to me anyway more closely resembles the true reef. As an old SCUBA diver I have visited a lot of reefs and the shimmer with LEDs is pretty close to natural.
I like the way the blue shimmers blends with the whites. It is much more interesting.
Don't get me wrong, the light from MH lighting is also nice but the benefits of LEDs far surpass the much older technology of MH lights.
The energy savings alone are worth the installation costs which are about the same as MH.
I am very energy concious as I even have solar panels on my roof to save electricity.
This is a recent picture with the LEDs

And this is an older picture with MH lighting 14,000K

Which looks better to you?

 

[GR808]

Well without ever owning a par meter I can tell you LEDs will light anything a t5 or 250w mh will....I could tell by my corals "best test kit available" I bleached chalices on the sand all day long that were cooking under 250w radiums on pfo ballast that's the best mh combo you can get..... Here is the thing with LEDs.... I had a friend of mine that was gonna buy my fixture for his new tank but backed out because!!!!! It was deceiving he didn't like how the fixture looked dim but packed a punch.... That is the case and I think that's what most people see and think LEDs aren't enough.... I'll be the first to say I had a led tank on one side and a mh on the other... My mh looks 100 times brighter but!!!! Stuff bleaches under those dim looking LEDs in a hurry I couldn't keep anything on my frag rack over a week or it lose color by bleaching out.... I think that's where most peoples 2 cents derive from not exp.... Just remember they look dim but they pack a heck of a punch don't under estimate them....

I totally agree Lee.. When I put my LEDs in, I started with 30% intensity. It didn't look very bright so I figured a 10 percent a week acclimation would be good so when I finally got up to 60-70 percent intensity, I've already cooked 2 of my sticks and have seen my Halloween millie started to bleach the tips. I quickly turned it back down to 35-40 percent and left it there for now. my millie got it's colors back and yes like u said, it may look slightly dim but it sure packs a punch...

 

[wichers]

Like the tones from the led for sure

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Reef Pets]

I like Metal Halides myself. I have never had an LED fixture due to what I have seen. I feel they are great for the use of actinics but I am not sold on them being a main light source. I run 20K Radiums and have yet to see an LED fixture that compares to the color. Of course this is just my opinion on what I find appealing when it comes to coral coloration.
I don't see Metal Halides fading anytime soon. I know MANY people that switched to LED's and under 6 months they were using Metal Halides again.
So many people drop a lot of money on reactors, controllers, pumps and so on to have a fail safe reefs and then go to LED's which in my opinion are not proven at this point. So why take the chances of compromising your reef when it comes to one of the most important aspects of a reef, lighting? My personal preference it to stay with what works and has proven to work for many years.

 

[Acropolis]

I think it is possible that corals may be bleaching like that under LEDs due to the extreme intensity at a single wavelength that the corals are not used to, versus a broader spectrum produced by a MH. I have read about corals kept under 250w 10k lighting bleaching when moved to 150w 20k and it was believed to be caused by the magnitude of the spectrum being greater at certain "sensitive" wavelengths under the 20k bulbs. The percieved brightness of the bulbs, one may seem brighter but the dimmer looking bulb is, in fact, more crucially intense to the corals.

I concur. For an aquarist a bleaching event is a disaster, and although mortality rates are high in nature when corals chose to expel their zooxanthellae, it's actually a survival technique. When you shift spectrum that significantly, you greatly diminish a coral's present species of zooxanthellae's effectiveness. It naturally looks for a better suited symbiot.

 

[H@rry]

I want to wait a couple of years for the technology and pricing to mature. I also want to see what the people who are switching to LEDs now are doing two years from now.

What it all boils down to is that lighting is a religious issue, it Ford vs Chevy. Some people have their mind made up and won't change. Others who have changed don't want to admit (if even only to themselves) that they made a mistake.

my 2 cents

 

[ronnie]

I agree Harry. Lighting is a lot like skimmers. Everyone has their brand and sticks with them!

I will say that once I convert to LEDs, I will track everything regardless of success. I am just that way. I probably won't ditch them either, I'll just come up with something else if they end up not working for whatever reason.

 

[GR808]

Ronnie, I hope you'll make a thread of your LED adventure, I'm curious to find out.
It is true about some sps browning out but most of mine are thriving. Actually I have one that is brown but should be purple but it is still growing with some PE. not sure what to make of it.
My other sps are thriving with colors I have not seen before so there is a + on that end.
beauty of my diy led light is that if some new colors should come out, I can easily change the stars and establish a new spectrum for my tank.

 

[ronnie]

I will for sure.

I've just recently discovered a true 420nm LED that is available. I'm kicking around adding some of those in just for giggles.

 

[GR808]

Were did you find those?

 

[ronnie]

ledgroupbuy.com (MODs - if I can't post that, remove it)

 

[Onedesign1]

I will for sure.

I've just recently discovered a true 420nm LED that is available. I'm kicking around adding some of those in just for giggles.

FWIW....I've been in the hobby for about 3 years and quickly moved to MHs so I could keep SPS. About 1.5 years in I got curious about LEDs and so I purchased a 14g biocube and mod'd the hood with a DIY LED setup. For a solid year my wife and i experimented. The good news is we did not kill a single coral. We did however cause some to lose color. It took some experimenting with color mix, intensity, lighting period, etc. 1.5 years later I'm all LEDs on 3 tanks. All DIY with the most recent build for my 120G. I have not experienced brown corals. I have bleached some with my experiments but for me it came down to color mix and intensity. LEDs put out very bright light from a single point and its deceiving. RIght now I'm contemplating adding a few green and red to my 120 because I think it may add some to the color pop and help better mimic a natural spectrum. But its another experiment....which for those who love to DIY is the beauty of LEDs.

IMHO, LEDs are just fine with a lot of benefits. Folks who experience browning and bleaching are over lighting and with the wrong spectrum IMO. Just based on my own experience of course.

I will also add that I built an actinic supplement bar for a friends 150 and mixed with his T5's its probably one of the prettiest tanks I have ever seen...that may be the best combo. but for me I'm all in with DIY LEDs and it can be done very economically too.

 

[ronnie]

Thanks onedesign - that is encouraging to hear.

I think that is one reason MH is/was so popular, but may also be its downfall. You have a limited number of sockets to put a bulb in, and they are expensive. This means you will do a lot of research on color before you pick that one or two bulb(s). With LEDs you have so many choices it gets hard to choose which one, how many, where, how hard to drive them, etc...