Metal halide SPS growth rate

[jackson6745]

Hope you guys enjoyed the video. It’s hard to make assumptions on coral heath based on this video, because there are edits of corals in various tanks and lightings being shown interchangeably. I have distorted and symmetrical fast growing corals under both lightings for various reasons.

So why did i change my display to led? I truly believe that once an acro is led grown and adapted, it is dang near impossible to get them to convert back to halide. It’s almost like they lose a protective pigment and won’t grow at all, or grow extremely slow with an unhealthy look. This is not true for all acros, but enough of them to the point where it’s super frustrating. This is something that I was dealing with for a while, and only truly became aware when growing the same corals under different lightings (plumbed together).

I had a lot of “collector” type acros in my frag tanks that would suck their polyps in and look more tight and irritated under halide , only to have them look better when I moved them to led again. Maybe this is from the coral being led adapted, or maybe these particular corals (many tenuis) are more adapted to a bluer spectrum coming from deeper water? No idea just speculation, but I can tell when an acro is happy or irritated.

Ultimately, I grew out many old school or shallow water varieties of acros in that 200g display tank over the last 2 years under MH. That tank would have been grown out 2x if I didn’t remove some of the colonies as they got large. Looking at the success of some acros in my led frag tanks, I wanted to recreate that into my display. Im a month into led on the display and so far so good. Im enjoying the new iteration, and corals are looking fantastic.

On a side note, I truly believe that led is responsible for the decline of the Tyree Purple Monster. I did move this coral to a frag tank and gave it its own 250w radium pendant. It’s happy and growing.

 

[c4haskett]

I really want to try some halides. I came into the hobby about 5 years ago, so unfortunately most of the halides were gone by then. Can someone point me in the right direction of what I'd need? I'd like to try some over my frag tank (4'x2'). Looks like I'll need a pair of fixtures, ballasts and bulbs? Anything else I would need? I see reefbrite offers a fixture still, would something like that work or should I look at a horticulture site and find some there? Recommendations on bulbs? Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[jackson6745]

I really want to try some halides. I came into the hobby about 5 years ago, so unfortunately most of the halides were gone by then. Can someone point me in the right direction of what I'd need? I'd like to try some over my frag tank (4'x2'). Looks like I'll need a pair of fixtures, ballasts and bulbs? Anything else I would need? I see reefbrite offers a fixture still, would something like that work or should I look at a horticulture site and find some there? Recommendations on bulbs? Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

these days on MH fixtures or pendants I would hit the used market. You can get them cheap or free. If you want a beautiful fixture, try to find a 48” giesemann spectra.

Bulbs are available here. 20k radium is the gold standard

https://aquabrightsolutions.com/

 

[A. grandis]

Hope you guys enjoyed the video. It’s hard to make assumptions on coral heath based on this video, because there are edits of corals in various tanks and lightings being shown interchangeably. I have distorted and symmetrical fast growing corals under both lightings for various reasons.

So why did i change my display to led? I truly believe that once an acro is led grown and adapted, it is dang near impossible to get them to convert back to halide. It’s almost like they lose a protective pigment and won’t grow at all, or grow extremely slow with an unhealthy look. This is not true for all acros, but enough of them to the point where it’s super frustrating. This is something that I was dealing with for a while, and only truly became aware when growing the same corals under different lightings (plumbed together).

I had a lot of “collector” type acros in my frag tanks that would suck their polyps in and look more tight and irritated under halide , only to have them look better when I moved them to led again. Maybe this is from the coral being led adapted, or maybe these particular corals (many tenuis) are more adapted to a bluer spectrum coming from deeper water? No idea just speculation, but I can tell when an acro is happy or irritated.

Ultimately, I grew out many old school or shallow water varieties of acros in that 200g display tank over the last 2 years under MH. That tank would have been grown out 2x if I didn’t remove some of the colonies as they got large. Looking at the success of some acros in my led frag tanks, I wanted to recreate that into my display. Im a month into led on the display and so far so good. Im enjoying the new iteration, and corals are looking fantastic.

On a side note, I truly believe that led is responsible for the decline of the Tyree Purple Monster. I did move this coral to a frag tank and gave it its own 250w radium pendant. It’s happy and growing.

Great to have you here! I wish I could go there and see that tank under halides!
I noticed the edit with the images. I noticed mainly because of the bottom of the tanks.
What you observed is true and the reason why I tell people to be very careful when adapting from LEDs to halides. The coral needs time to adapt. The longer that lineage was under LEDs, the longer the adaptation will be. The transformation ("morpholization") will eventually take place, though. That depends of many factors, but if the coral doesn't die, it will happen. Some species are faster than others, but they will adapt because they have to. Sometimes, if you don't track your Acropora, you will find them to be so different after 6 months to a year of adaptation that you will see as another species. Some species will keep "morphing" for more than a year! Then you will see that they are not that colorful, or maybe have a blue tip at the most, their natural pigmentation. That is the normal color configuration of that gene! In my point of view, to have a coral "morphing" that much using LEDs is to force it to a struggling stage. In nature they have the full spectrum and halides will emit a complete spectrum, the best that resembles what they are supposed to have. That is what represents a healthy environment to me. I agree that LEDs are responsible for the decline of many corals sold. Most LEDs provoke the formation of fluorescent proteins and that is ca$h today, only under blue LEDs with lower intensity than they are supposed to receive. It's the marketing strategy.

Some of your corals are amazing. Thanks for sharing!

 

[reefpanda]

Andrew (Polo Reef) likes Halides too

 

[A. grandis]

The combination of metal halides and T5s is what gives the very best results to me as well over shallow tanks. That is because of the rich spectrum from both, distribution and delivery of the photons, and also aesthetics. So it is about the animals in the first place, then the touch of a beautiful more natural look too. Something that you will actually have pleasure to look at for hours! I strongly believe that not only corals, but also the fishes in the system will benefit from the combination. Can you imagine if you had to be in a box 24/7 under any LED? It would be just terrible! Why do you think people wear those stupid orange glasses for? Probably to try to relief their eyes from LEDs, nothing else comes to mind! Not normal! In my opinion it's a sin to put blue LEDs over any aquarium like that! Whatever is bad to our eyes will also be bad for the animals designed to live on the reef under the sun. I'm sorry! The corals under proper spectrum will show that natural growth rate and colony structure formation. It will show that touch of shine on their healthy tissue, and the colors will be rich and true to what they are. The shimmer from the halides really penetrates the corals and gives them that boost of intensity with the radiation from a lamp that produces light from gases, just like the sun, very similar to what happens in the ocean. The T5s complete the scenario spreading the photons like no other technology can, specially with good German reflectors, resembling the sky light, and also gives that amazing rich spectrum. Nothing like it! For shallow aquariums, less than 24"/30", we still can use T5s as a supplement. The best lamp ever to me is the ATI Blue Plus! Any metal halide will do great with the Blue Plus lamps! It is the lamp of choice for serious coral growers as well.
Again... not about saving electricity! That is the the key for their marketing strategy, to say "LEDs don't get hot" and blah blah blah.... It's about the best combination of biological efficacy to promote extremely healthy organisms. Not to mention that the whole system will respond positively to halides/T5s.
Yes, I simply love corals and love to see people treating them with the very best possible!
Those are still my conclusions from observing so many systems fro more than 30 years.
Keep reefing!

 

[X-37B]

The combination of metal halides and T5s is what gives the very best results to me as well over shallow tanks. That is because of the rich spectrum from both, distribution and delivery of the photons, and also aesthetics. So it is about the animals in the first place, then the touch of a beautiful more natural look too. Something that you will actually have pleasure to look at for hours! I strongly believe that not only corals, but also the fishes in the system will benefit from the combination. Can you imagine if you had to be in a box 24/7 under any LED? It would be just terrible! Why do you think people wear those stupid orange glasses for? Probably to try to relief their eyes from LEDs, nothing else comes to mind! Not normal! In my opinion it's a sin to put blue LEDs over any aquarium like that! Whatever is bad to our eyes will also be bad for the animals designed to live on the reef under the sun. I'm sorry! The corals under proper spectrum will show that natural growth rate and colony structure formation. It will show that touch of shine on their healthy tissue, and the colors will be rich and true to what they are. The shimmer from the halides really penetrates the corals and gives them that boost of intensity with the radiation from a lamp that produces light from gases, just like the sun, very similar to what happens in the ocean. The T5s complete the scenario spreading the photons like no other technology can, specially with good German reflectors, resembling the sky light, and also gives that amazing rich spectrum. Nothing like it! For shallow aquariums, less than 24"/30", we still can use T5s as a supplement. The best lamp ever to me is the ATI Blue Plus! Any metal halide will do great with the Blue Plus lamps! It is the lamp of choice for serious coral growers as well.
Again... not about saving electricity! That is the the key for their marketing strategy, to say "LEDs don't get hot" and blah blah blah.... It's about the best combination of biological efficacy to promote extremely healthy organisms. Not to mention that the whole system will respond positively to halides/T5s.
Yes, I simply love corals and love to see people treating them with the very best possible!
Those are still my conclusions from observing so many systems fro more than 30 years.
Keep reefing!

Metal halides and t5's are going away. The enviromental ban currently says you can run what you have but manufacturing and sales of new ones is going to end in 2027. Several states already have the ban in place.
Thats why I stocked up, lol.
So yea at my age I can run halides until the end.
Get them now, stock up on ballasts and reflectors.
It only took me 6 months to aquire several reflectors, still looking, 15+ ballasts, and 50+ bulbs.
If anyone is thinking of running them now is the time to find the equipment needed.

 

[56longroof]

Metal halides and t5's are going away. The enviromental ban currently says you can run what you have but manufacturing and sales of new ones is going to end in 2027. Several states already have the ban in place.
Thats why I stocked up, lol.
So yea at my age I can run halides until the end.
Get them now, stock up on ballasts and reflectors.
It only took me 6 months to aquire several reflectors, still looking, 15+ ballasts, and 50+ bulbs.
If anyone is thinking of running them now is the time to find the equipment needed.

The last I heard the ban doesn't apply to the aquarium hobby. Its more of a industrial/residential ban.

 

[X-37B]

The last I heard the ban doesn't apply to the aquarium hobby. Its more of a industrial/residential ban.

Yea I heard that also but some states if you search have already implemented the "mercury" ban.
As I understand the ban no new bulbs can be made or purchased after 2027 regardless of what they are used for.
Im in Cal so I watch it closely.

 

[oreo54]

Yea I heard that also but some states if you search have already implemented the "mercury" ban.
As I understand the ban no new bulbs can be made or purchased after 2027 regardless of what they are used for.
Im in Cal so I watch it closely.

They changed it?
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB2208There was a specific waiver for them if...

5) A lamp used for coral zooxanthellae symbiosis from which the radiation power emitted between 400 and 480 nanometers represents at least 40 percent of the total radiation power emitted between 250 and 800 nanometers.

https://www.pecnw.com/blog/active-list-of-us-states-banning-fluorescent-lights/

 

[X-37B]

They changed it?
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB2208There was a specific waiver for them if...

https://www.pecnw.com/blog/active-list-of-us-states-banning-fluorescent-lights/

Must have missed it, thanks. So how do they determine that the 40% between 250-800 is 400-480?

 

[oreo54]

Must have missed it, thanks. So how do they determine that the 40% between 250-800 is 400-480?

Spectrometer..56% blue to violet,.
https://reefs.com/magazine/product-...tinic-white-and-aquasun-high-output-t5-lamps/
Suppose I need to mention the "catch".. If I lose 80% of my market (office/daylight t5) is staying open for 20% really a wise idea?
Once things like UV leds can economically equal or surpass "tanning bed" lights the market will shrink even more

"IF" they disappear it will be an industry choice moreso than the gov.

MH's are less likely to totally die anytime soon. Less economic replacements in high wattages. Well any above or equal to 250W.

 

[56longroof]

Must have missed it, thanks. So how do they determine that the 40% between 250-800 is 400-480?

Just got this from Dave at Aquabrite

 

[A. grandis]

Metal halides and t5's are going away. The enviromental ban currently says you can run what you have but manufacturing and sales of new ones is going to end in 2027. Several states already have the ban in place.
Thats why I stocked up, lol.
So yea at my age I can run halides until the end.
Get them now, stock up on ballasts and reflectors.
It only took me 6 months to aquire several reflectors, still looking, 15+ ballasts, and 50+ bulbs.
If anyone is thinking of running them now is the time to find the equipment needed.

Well... remember they used to say that same thing back in 2010? And 2012, when I started to show here that the LED propaganda was already working on removing halides and T5s off the aquarium industry saying the same thing, people didn't believe me. They made BrS videos about that! They already said that "next year the ban will come, and...". They removed halides from their inventory and promoted the more expensive LEDs for profit! The propaganda also involved the promotion of fluorescence sales using blue LEDs as a "new thing", selling 1/4" pieces for a lot of money, starting in FL. The ban is for other than specialized industries, like the aquarium and horticulture industries, as far as I know. In other words, you aren't going to see halides sold for warehouses and T5s for the household. Radium went back with their production after I sent so many emails to them explaining all that and many of us here in this forum also helped me sending emails. They went back with their production because of those emails, by demand. Tulio said he will never stop producing his Reef Brite halide gear. Aqua Bright Solutions is a relatively new company producing their lamps. Today we can buy Radiums, normally, also from them. Giesemann still makes their Spectra by demand. But it is what it is. If it happens to be banned at all one day, too bad.
The bad thing is that those rumors come up all the time in threads like this and it's like a bucket of cold water on those who want to try halides. That is the main reason why the demand is never enough for any company to start producing new fixtures and ballasts! Enough with the lies from LED companies promoting the "substitution" and "advantages" of their products! If you look throughout the decade you will see how many times I wrote about this same subject. So sad!

Can you let us know about the equipment you have there? Post the pictures. Interesting.

 

[X-37B]

These are the current bulbs I have.
All are 400 watt mogal.
Fixtures are in other posts.
Lumenbrite
2 lumen max elite
Reefbrite
Several grow hoods
M135 ballasts
M59 ballasts
10 digital ballasts
I like the Ushio 10K look with the 14K edge bars. Very high par.
The Ushio 20K looks better than the Radium and the Hamiliton 20K.
I got lucky and found a case of 12 Ushio 20K's for $30 a bulb.
You know how much I spent on 6 Radiums, lol.

 

[A. grandis]

Man, I love that stuff!!! I believe you will be setting up a coral farm soon? Just kitting. That BLV is very special. Where did you get that one? Looks brand new too. Their package wasn't like that.
Ushio 10000K is indeed strong. Great lamp!
Good gear! Thanks for sharing.
If you still have that German Pastor, please give him a treat for me!

 

[X-37B]

Man, I love that stuff!!! I believe you will be setting up a coral farm soon? Just kitting. That BLV is very special. Where did you get that one? Looks brand new too. Their package wasn't like that.
Ushio 10000K is indeed strong. Great lamp!
Good gear! Thanks for sharing.
If you still have that German Pastor, please give him a treat for me!

I keep a lookout for 400's. I found 2 cases of 12 on ebay.
Listed as old/new stock.
Ushio 20K
Giesemann 12.5K
The giesemann, I only had it on for an hour, is more yellow than the Ushio 10K.

 

[56longroof]

These are the current bulbs I have.
All are 400 watt mogal.
Fixtures are in other posts.
Lumenbrite
2 lumen max elite
Reefbrite
Several grow hoods
M135 ballasts
M59 ballasts
10 digital ballasts
I like the Ushio 10K look with the 14K edge bars. Very high par.
The Ushio 20K looks better than the Radium and the Hamiliton 20K.
I got lucky and found a case of 12 Ushio 20K's for $30 a bulb.
You know how much I spent on 6 Radiums, lol.

I'll have to dig out my stash of 250 watt bulbs. I think I have enough to last me 15- 20 years.

 

[oreo54]

Giesemann 12.5K
The giesemann, I only had it on for an hour, is more yellow than the Ushio 10K.

According to AI you need an m80 ballast to achieve the " correct " color for the Giesemann.

The Giesemann MEGACHROME Marine 12.5K is a high-performance, European-made metal halide lamp celebrated in the reef-keeping community for producing the brightest, whitest light in its class. It is specifically designed to maximize coral growth while mimicking natural daylight.

Color Spectrum: 12.5K output renders a crisp, clean, bright-white appearance with a very slight hint of blue, lacking the yellow tints of lower-K bulbs.Growth & Coloration: Engineered to deliver the intense PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) required for sustaining healthy, vibrant coral reefs.Supplementation: Often run standalone for a natural look, but easily paired with blue/actinic T5s to enhance color pop without making the tank overly blue.Ballast Compatibility: To fire reliably and achieve the intended spectral output, these 250-watt and 400-watt lamps typically require an HQI (ANSI M80) ballast or a compatible high-quality electronic ballast. Users have noted that pairing this bulb with a magnetic ballast can yield slightly different color rendition compared to electronic ballasts.

 

[Reefering1]

Ill play!
Pheonix14k and ushio 14k hqi bulbs.

About 10 m80s, 5 m132's, and 8 pendants.