Microbacter Clean: Before Vs After

[Dan_P]

I agree. They suggest that the bottled bacteria possibly had an effect...how likely or unlikely that this caused the effect is no clearer than the sources this undocumented evidence came from. Im a little curious how and where all this evidence was gathered in support of bacteria consumed by corals providing nitrates and phosphates if it wasnt a peer-reviewed study...seems difficult to assess by making daily observations alone...

Also, if someone hasn't heard this yet, correlation does not imply causation...

I am skeptical of there being a correlation because aquarist have such a strong influence on what happens in an aquarium AND they are making less than rigorous observations of effects.

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

I am skeptical of there being a correlation because aquarist have such a strong influence on what happens in an aquarium AND they are making less than rigorous observations of effects.

I was trying to be less blunt, but yeah...I agree with you 100%.

 

[Solo McReefer]

Yeah but…

While the points made are valid, they only suggest that there is possibility not the probability that a bacteria-in-a-bottle product does anything. I would really like to see the data that a product performs any of the functions claimed. Customer testimonials are not the type of data interests me.

Hey, who’s the dude in the white coat?

That's Dr Barry Marshall

When he developed a hypothesis that "stress" didn't cause stomach ulcers, but bacteria did

The ENTIRE Scientific and Medical community mocked and laughed at him. Everyone knew that stress caused ulcers

Couldn't get grant money to test the hypothesis

So he swallowed Helicobacter pylori and immediately developed stomach ulcers

Everyone in science and medicine should know who he is and what he did

The point being, you're never going to get any grant money for double blind peer reviewed science on anything you are asking for. The best you're going to get is 'evidence based'.

If that's not good enough for you "that's anecdotal" "confirmation biased" "correlation is not causation" etc, oh no, anyway

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

That's Dr Barry Marshall

When he developed a hypothesis that "stress" didn't cause stomach ulcers, but bacteria did

The ENTIRE Scientific and Medical community mocked and laughed at him. Everyone knew that stress caused ulcers

Couldn't get grant money to test the hypothesis

So he swallowed Helicobacter pylori and immediately developed stomach ulcers

Everyone in science and medicine should know who he is and what he did

The point being, you're never going to get any grant money for double blind peer reviewed science on anything you are asking for. The best you're going to get is 'evidence based'.

If that's not good enough for you "that's anecdotal" "confirmation biased" "correlation is not causation" etc, oh no, anyway

Yeah, it would tough to get funding for a double-blind study to investigate this...the first question would be "Why are you designing a DOUBLE-BLIND STUDY to test this". Do you know what a double blind study is?

If the research is important, funding might not be easy to find, it NEVER is, but it could be found.

Just a note, perhaps bacteria are just 1 of many causes of stomach ulcers...when you wrote that, did you take into consideration that the pre-existing beliefs for the causes of stomach ulcers may have also been true or closely related?

 

[Dan_P]

That's Dr Barry Marshall

When he developed a hypothesis that "stress" didn't cause stomach ulcers, but bacteria did

The ENTIRE Scientific and Medical community mocked and laughed at him. Everyone knew that stress caused ulcers

Couldn't get grant money to test the hypothesis

So he swallowed Helicobacter pylori and immediately developed stomach ulcers

Everyone in science and medicine should know who he is and what he did

I like these types of stories. The daring individual, fighting against the current best thinking. Fighting the “man”. I worked with the guy that discovered aspartame was sweet. He bucked the system ( in the lab keep your fingers away from your face) by moistening his fingers to pick up a piece of weighing paper or something like that.

Anyway these stories are very misleading because we don’t hear about the thousands of goofs who screwed up doing the exact same thing.

The point being, you're never going to get any grant money for double blind peer reviewed science on anything you are asking for. The best you're going to get is 'evidence based'.

If that's not good enough for you "that's anecdotal" "confirmation biased" "correlation is not causation" etc, oh no, anyway

There is a larger range of options for understanding reality than either anecdotal information or double-blind studies. Here’s why it seems there isn’t.

Human brains are wired to believe in stuff. Human brains also favor using intuition to explain how reality works. Engaging in the more arduous activity of thinking is not a reflex response. Basing an explanation on anecdotal information and denying facts or other possible explanations that are threatening is easy. It is also a self limiting approach to understanding stuff.

So if you are happy with an intuitive approach, go for it. Sometimes, but not often, the obvious is the answer.

 

[Solo McReefer]

Just a note,

You missed the point entirely

Even after it's been spelled out

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

You missed the point entirely

Even after it's been spelled out

No, I got the point you tried to make, I just found it to be pointless haha

 

[FindingNem0]

Has anyone used MB clean for bubble algae?

Recently bought a frag which had 1 bubble on it, did pluck it out and it seems like I notice it a bit too late.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Has anyone used MB clean for bubble algae?

Recently bought a frag which had 1 bubble on it, did pluck it out and it seems like I notice it a bit too late.

I do not think there’s evidence of any bacteria product helping deal with algae problems such as valonia (bubble algae).

 

[FindingNem0]

I do not think there’s evidence of any bacteria product helping deal with algae problems such as valonia (bubble algae).

We don't have emerald crab here in Australia, I heard of black tuxedo urchin eating everything, but won't reach into tight gaps. Won't be able to fit any fish into a full 20g nano. I guess manual removal is my only option.

 

[BristleWormHater]

We don't have emerald crab here in Australia, I heard of black tuxedo urchin eating everything, but won't reach into tight gaps. Won't be able to fit any fish into a full 20g nano. I guess manual removal is my only option.

Pitho crabs?
White claw hermits?
Do you have those there?

 

[FindingNem0]

Pitho crabs?
White claw hermits?
Do you have those there?

Nope, we only have inverts that does nothing lol.

 

[Anxur]

Hai messo tutti quegli acros in una vasca di un mese? Auguro a te e al tuo portafoglio buona fortuna con questa sfida. Non hai menzionato l'età della tua vasca nel tuo primo post, ma per le nuove vasche non c'è niente di sbagliato nell'introdurre biodiversità tramite batteri in bottiglia. Ciò che avresti dovuto fare è lasciare le luci spente per i primi 4 mesi prima di aggiungere coralli, in modo che la tua vasca sviluppi biodiversità e microfauna, quindi le tue brutte fasi sarebbero state molto più gestibili il primo anno e la sopravvivenza dei tuoi coralli sarebbe aumentata notevolmente. In genere solo i reefer molto avanzati che usano rocce oceaniche vive saranno in grado di mantenere una vasca sufficientemente stabile nei primi mesi per gli acros.

Il mio acquario? In realtà sta prosperando magnificamente in questo momento. Ora ho 25 acros e sono stato fortunato a perderne solo uno a causa dello stress della spedizione negli ultimi 9 mesi. Ho aspettato fino a circa 10 mesi per aggiungere acros quando la mia coraline stava facendo effetto. L'acquario ha attraversato un cambiamento radicale a un anno con una stabilità molto più prevedibile ora.

Buona fortuna con il tuo carro armato, ma il primo anno saranno tempi duri.

My seven months tanks..if you know what to do, 3, 4, 15 months are the same.. (find my build thread in the section)

 

[Anxur]

Yes of course. Perhaps the pictures are hard for you guys to tell a difference ? They were taken with an iPhone so it’s not really able to capture how it actually looks standing in front of the glass in person.

However, I think the top down shots show the most drastic results as far as what this product actually did. It is 100% a possibility that this could just be a coincidence in timing but I am leaning towards @taricha opinion that this product lands somewhere in between science and advertisement. How much to one side or the other ? This is my reason for writing this thread.

A) Water quality has without a doubt improved tremendously. It is cleaner, clearer and smells more “fresh” than before. My waste water used to have a slight yellow tint during weekly WC but yesterday I did my first change since dosing and the water coming out looked almost identical to the new water going in.

B) The algae that was growing on my rockwork and some parts of the sand is literally non-existent now. I also used to grow this same algae on the overflow box glass in a thick layer but it has since faded out leaving only a small trace remaining.

C) I have not gotten around to taking measurements for nutrient levels changes yet… so this is still TBD for now.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

What do you think is inside this product to have such an immediate effect? Enzymes, medicinal bacteria, some other chemical?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

What do you think is inside this product to have such an immediate effect? Enzymes, medicinal bacteria, some other chemical?

I’m not sure what is in it, or if it is even generally useful. Bacteria are filled with enzymes, so a composition listing bacteria and enzymes could be just bacteria without literally lying.

Brightwell Aquatics MicrōBacterCLEAN is a complex system of non-pathogenic microbes and natural enzymes, specifically formulated to clean an aquarium's live rock and decorations.

 

[BriDroid]

I was on the MicrobactorClean band wagon for a while. I really thought it was doing something, then one day about 3 weeks ago I decided to stop dosing it. Guess what, nothing happened. In fact, I think my tank looks better. Less bio film on the glass for sure. I don't think it does much of anything honestly.

 

[stevedola]

I have used this product, MB clean, twice in mixed reef tanks with hair algae problems. Im talking HA that was inches in length and wavy. Smothering corals in some instances. My antidotal evidence is that within 1 mth my tank was noticeably less infested with hair algae. By mth 2, my tank was clean of HA. I will note that MB clean was used in conjunction with weekly water changes with manual removal and maintenance. This practice of blowing rocks, hand picking and water changes was started prior to MB clean but had temporary results. The HA would return.

I've been in this hobby for 20+ years and usually don't buy snake oil but I like MB products so I gave it a try after listen to Keith (reefbum) and his video series on the topic. I have never been more impressed with a product for algae control. No corals were harmed (sps, lps, zoas, etc.) and no fish/clams. I would definitely use this product again if I got an outbreak. .

 

[skey44]

I have stopped bacteria dosing my tank. Everything seems to be exactly the same. Now I’m just saving money. Will update if for whatever reason I decide this is viable again.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

ye

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

I have used this product, MB clean, twice in mixed reef tanks with hair algae problems. Im talking HA that was inches in length and wavy. Smothering corals in some instances. My antidotal evidence is that within 1 mth my tank was noticeably less infested with hair algae. By mth 2, my tank was clean of HA. I will note that MB clean was used in conjunction with weekly water changes with manual removal and maintenance. This practice of blowing rocks, hand picking and water changes was started prior to MB clean but had temporary results. The HA would return.

I've been in this hobby for 20+ years and usually don't buy snake oil but I like MB products so I gave it a try after listen to Keith (reefbum) and his video series on the topic. I have never been more impressed with a product for algae control. No corals were harmed (sps, lps, zoas, etc.) and no fish/clams. I would definitely use this product again if I got an outbreak. .

For someone with your experience, this speaks volumes. I use it as well and while I don’t have a ton of hair, It seems to tidy up the tank so far.