Montipora dying with seemingly good parameters, flow, and lighting.

[Zeal]

That’s unfortunate. I really wanted something that could go on top of my rocks in higher light because I have LPS dominating my lower rock areas. I wanted to start with easier SPS before going into acros and I can’t keep montis alive ha I guess I can just lower the light intensity though.

That's not how you fix a problem like this.

You don't adjust the light for a single coral. You run into the issue of hurting the rest.

Move the monti down then slowly bring it up in 2 weeks.

 

[ekandler]

That's not how you fix a problem like this.

You don't adjust the light for a single coral. You run into the issue of hurting the rest.

Move the monti down then slowly bring it up in 2 weeks.

Yeah I’m not saying I changed my lights for this, I just know the PAR on top of my rocks is higher and I left it clear for SPS and my LPS are lower. I planned my scape around SPS up top and LPS low but I’m struggling to keep the SPS up too. When I did my PAR test it was 200-250 on top of that rock but I know acros and other SPS can live in 350+, maybe not montis but I didn’t think 200 was too much.

 

[ekandler]

I have an update after getting a new monti cap and attempting the correct acclimation procedures and I'm still bleaching /killing these corals. Received this monti cap on Monday, drip acclimated in a small container for 3 hours, draining most of the water in the container on 3 occasions so it would be almost all of my water by the end. Then I sat it in the sandbed and started an acclimation cycle on my Radions which didn't work... Either way, it was in my sandbed so probably only getting 100 PAR. Today I noticed the acclimation didn't work and set my lights to 70% manually so I'll just do it myself over the next 2 weeks. Either way, with all of that, I can see signs of it starting to die.

To further rule out issues, I did an AquaBiomics microbiome test which normal microbiome diversity, normal concentration of ammonia-oxidizing and nitrite-oxidizing bacteria, and no signs of parasites or pests.

So now I'm back to my original question, what's going on? all parameters are in normal ranges, lighting is sufficient but not too high, flow is good, RODI is as pure as I can get, my microbiome analysis shows no issues.... What else is there left to check?

 

[ReefGeezer]

I looked at the picture of your Monti. Is the white around the edges from growth or is the color receding from the edges? Or is the off-color spot toward the center the issue?

You may have to employ the process of elimination. You have eliminated the easy stuff:
1. Improper Alk... No
2 Unstable Alk... No
3. Suitable Ca/Mag... Yes
4. Acceptable nutrient levels... Yes
5. Acceptable light intensity & spectrum levels... Yes
6. Issues with other (Non-SPS) corals... No
7. Suitable/Stable temp and Salinity... Yes
8. Adequate flow... Yes
9. Reasonable acclimation... Yes

Sorry if these seem rather basic, but I would think about the following:
1. SPS specific pests in DT... What does the underside of the Monti look like i.e. pits/scrapes, eggs, bugs visible (magnifying glass helps)? If you dip it does anything fall off and lay in the bottom of the bucket/bowel?
2. +1 for checking Salinity... How is it measured? What the SG/PPT? Has the measurement method been validated?
3. Dosing issues... Does 2-part dosing method allow the solutions to completely dissolve prior to entry into the DT? Is there any precipitation entering the DT? Does the dosing cause any spike in alk even for a few minutes? Is your monitoring system capable of recognizing a very short term alk spikes? Is it appropriate to add the Red Sea product you are adding to the two-part solution and does the ratio added result in the desired dosage per day?

 

[ekandler]

I looked at the picture of your Monti. Is the white around the edges from growth or is the color receding from the edges? Or is the off-color spot toward the center the issue?

You may have to employ the process of elimination. You have eliminated the easy stuff:
1. Improper Alk... No
2 Unstable Alk... No
3. Suitable Ca/Mag... Yes
4. Acceptable nutrient levels... Yes
5. Acceptable light intensity & spectrum levels... Yes
6. Issues with other (Non-SPS) corals... No
7. Suitable/Stable temp and Salinity... Yes
8. Adequate flow... Yes
9. Reasonable acclimation... Yes

Sorry if these seem rather basic, but I would think about the following:
1. SPS specific pests in DT... What does the underside of the Monti look like i.e. pits/scrapes, eggs, bugs visible (magnifying glass helps)? If you dip it does anything fall off and lay in the bottom of the bucket/bowel?
2. +1 for checking Salinity... How is it measured? What the SG/PPT? Has the measurement method been validated?
3. Dosing issues... Does 2-part dosing method allow the solutions to completely dissolve prior to entry into the DT? Is there any precipitation entering the DT? Does the dosing cause any spike in alk even for a few minutes? Is your monitoring system capable of recognizing a very short term alk spikes? Is it appropriate to add the Red Sea product you are adding to the two-part solution and does the ratio added result in the desired dosage per day?

So I purchased that on Monday (3 days ago), so the white on the edges are what it had on it when I purchased it so I assume that's from growth from the previous system. My concern right now is the off-color spot in the center which wasn't there before, I'm trying to make an early decision on whether the same thing is happening to this one which happed to my previous and give it to a friend before it's too late.
1) here is a picture of the underside of it, does it appear to have anything odd to you? I can't see anything abnormal.
2) Salinity is measured with a refractometer to be 1.026 and I do have a calibration solution that that I check regularly. For the sake of this conversation, I just checked it now and confirmed my refractometer is 35ppt salinity and my tank is at 1.026sg.
3) I have 1 gallon containers of dosing solution, my tank consumes around 25ml per day, so I mix new containers of dosing fluid about every 6 months. I haven't swapped dosing fluid since this coral arrived. No precipitation that I can tell, the typical puff of white but my dosing lines go into my return section and it is not noticeable out of my return nozzle into the tank. My 2 part is dosed by a DOS controlled Trident, so currently it's saying it's dosing between 0.8-1.5ml per hour to maintain alkalinity per the tridents testing. I can't confirm that the 1.5ml dosing isn't causing a spike, but since I'm dosing every hour rather than once a day, I don't expect it to be an issue. Not to mention my 25ml isn't a lot for most large systems I know of and the DOS/Trident combination isn't uncommon. My trident setup measures alkalinity 4 times a day (12am, 6am, 12pm, 6pm). I didn't add Red Sea product to my two-part solution, I added Tropic Marin Trace A- and K+ to my 2-part at BRS recommended levels. To my surprise when doing the math, it's actually a lot lower than recommended. On a tank my size (90gal) the Tropic Marin Trace A-/K+ bottles recommend 3.5ml of solution daily (1ml per 26gal), but doing the BRS recommended 130ml of solution per gallon (3785ml) of 2-part dosing solution, that's only 0.03ml of trace element solution per 1ml of 2part solution, or 0.8ml of trace element solution per daily 25ml 2part solution I'm dosing currently.

 

[arking_mark]

Yeah I’m not saying I changed my lights for this, I just know the PAR on top of my rocks is higher and I left it clear for SPS and my LPS are lower. I planned my scape around SPS up top and LPS low but I’m struggling to keep the SPS up too. When I did my PAR test it was 200-250 on top of that rock but I know acros and other SPS can live in 350+, maybe not montis but I didn’t think 200 was too much.

Can I ask how you are measuring your PAR?

 

[ekandler]

Can I ask how you are measuring your PAR?

It was a PAR meter rental from a local fish store. Don’t remember the exact model.

 

[arking_mark]

It was a PAR meter rental from a local fish store. Don’t remember the exact model.

Then PAR should be good enough.

 

[arking_mark]

Maybe consider several larger water changes over the next several weeks?

 

[ReefGeezer]

That off colored spot could be nothing. I had a huge Monti Cap. It got a spots on it from time to time. It even got a little bleach spot on it a time or two. It always colored back up. I think you have the bases covered. Glue that Monti down to a rock and leave it alone for a while.

 

[hllb]

I have an encrusting monti that bleached out and I was sure was dead. It was due to a phosphate spike. I would check your phosphates with another test kit perhaps. If it makes you feel better, I was sure mine was dead. It wasn't. It grew over the dead parts and got huge. I have some white spots on it right now that I think are from an angel picking at it. Any fish that may like monti polyps in your tank?

 

[alxrosco]

I would use a poly-filter to remove any traces of a chemical, or toxins from the leather coral, that might be affecting the coral. I only use it ocassionaly, but I always have it available.

 

[hllb]

Here’s my monti with some white patches in it. I’d look for a fish causing issues

 

[ekandler]

Update for everyone. Definitely continuing to die. Had this coral for a little over a week and this is what it looks like. I did an acclimation on my lights and it's in the sandbed so it's definitely not that lighting. the flow isn't super high there, so I don't think it's getting blasted. For the recommendation of water changes, I guess my concern is trying to figure out what the true issue is... I've been down the route of extra water changes and it didn't resolve anything. As a result, I did ICP tests and microbacterial tests, which both came back with no sign of concerns, so what do I do? additional water changes would suggest to me that it's not going to help and just cost more money. I went ahead and posted a picture of my parameters (alk, calc, nitrate, phosphate, temp, ph) over the past two weeks+.

Not sure if it could be fish, but I have mostly reef safe fish: clowns, leopard wrasse, six line wrasse, copperband butterfly, coral beauty angelfish, tomini tang, yellow tang, powder blue tang, bi-color blenny, and mandarin goby. Does someone think it could be a fish issue?

For the recommendation of polyhpil, that is what I use in place of filter socks and have been continuously for the entire life of the tank.

To specify, these new-to-me SPS are the only corals having issues... i have a healthy purple Stylo, red digi monti, green pocillipora, and meteor shower cyphastrea. I was sort of under the impression something was odd with my tank, unknown what exactly, that it takes extra time to acclimate

 

[hllb]

Update for everyone. Definitely continuing to die. Had this coral for a little over a week and this is what it looks like. I did an acclimation on my lights and it's in the sandbed so it's definitely not that lighting. the flow isn't super high there, so I don't think it's getting blasted. For the recommendation of water changes, I guess my concern is trying to figure out what the true issue is... I've been down the route of extra water changes and it didn't resolve anything. As a result, I did ICP tests and microbacterial tests, which both came back with no sign of concerns, so what do I do? additional water changes would suggest to me that it's not going to help and just cost more money. I went ahead and posted a picture of my parameters (alk, calc, nitrate, phosphate, temp, ph) over the past two weeks+.

Not sure if it could be fish, but I have mostly reef safe fish: clowns, leopard wrasse, six line wrasse, copperband butterfly, coral beauty angelfish, tomini tang, yellow tang, powder blue tang, bi-color blenny, and mandarin goby. Does someone think it could be a fish issue?

For the recommendation of polyhpil, that is what I use in place of filter socks and have been continuously for the entire life of the tank.

To specify, these new-to-me SPS are the only corals having issues... i have a healthy purple Stylo, red digi monti, green pocillipora, and meteor shower cyphastrea. I was sort of under the impression something was odd with my tank, unknown what exactly, that it takes extra time to acclimate

It could be the coral beauty. Angels are a risk in a reef tank and my flame angel is the one that is picking at mine.

 

[ekandler]

It could be the coral beauty. Angels are a risk in a reef tank and my flame angel is the one that is picking at mine.

Any way to identify that as the culprit other than removing him and waiting? I can’t seem to find any pictures online specifically of a Corals which has been nipped at by a fish

 

[hllb]

Any way to identify that as the culprit other than removing him and waiting? I can’t seem to find any pictures online specifically of a Corals which has been nipped at by a fish

I’ve watched mine do it. I’d spend some time observing and see if you spot anything. You could also build a plexiglass shield for the coral and see if it stops the issue.

 

[hllb]

I’ve watched mine do it. I’d spend some time observing and see if you spot anything. You could also build a plexiglass shield for the coral and see if it stops the issue.

Do you have a shroom box you could put it in? I’ve got some softies in mine that I recently fragged. Put it in a box, protected, and see if it improves. Then you know someone was picking at it.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I would not leave it on your sandbed too long. Unhappy corals don't like to be blasted with light, but weak corals will starve if you keep them in too little light for too long.

You have lots of LPS and a few other SPS, so I don't think the issue is with your tank. You may have just got some bad frags of monti's or the tank's where they came from had some odd parameters and they were not able to adjust to your tank quick enough.

I would try another frag, perhaps from a different source. Just be careful about pests. Montipora eating nudibranches are easy to catch and very hard to get out of a tank. Monticaps are notorious for having them (none of your photos show any damage that resemble nudis).

Dennis

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I thought my nutrient levels were adequate, I got the frag from a friend that had lower levels than mine but I didn’t think mine were too high.

The ICP test may well be inaccurate, but the ICP phosphate is very high. About 1 ppm.