Moorish Idols

[Reef Madness]

I am 1 for 1 on keeping moorish idols. I had one that was caught and brought in from Hawaii, at least what I was told, and he actually ate a bit of everything- pellets, nori, brine shrimp, oh and coral. That's when he had to be rehomed to another hobbiest. I had him for about 9 months before he wore out his welcome. My parameters and tankmates were nothing out of the ordinary in my 220 gallon mixed reef. My temperature was always kept at 77 to 78 and salinity 1.025. I really think handling time is extra crucial for these fish. Since the commute was rather short compared to some Hawaii to LA to Portland, Or. I really believe this had a part in my success story too. I believe these are very difficult fish but not impossible.....I've had worse luck with Powder Blue Tangs though.....but that's a different thread.

 

[Bob agren]

Feed my (3) idols heads of romaine along with frozen brine but they eat about anything I give them especially chopped up Gulf shrimp that I also feed my other critters. Bought my idols from NYC aquatics and we're eating out of the Box! 180 gal mixed reef large overgrown sailfish sometimes takes the long too trailing find as food but other thand that they rule the tank. They love romaine as a snack.

 

[ReefBeta]

Okay, so before anyone jumps down my throat about the low success rate of these beautiful fish in aquaria, please read.

I have always had an interest in having a small school (3) of Moorish Idols. I am currently designing a 240gal tank build and would like take any steps I can to be successful with them. No, I have not already purchased or ordered them and don't intend to do so until the tank has been running and stable, and I have the confidence to give them a try. I know these fish are wild caught and I do not want to take any from the ocean without the confidence I can keep them happy.

So I have some questions I would love to see answered from anyone who has had or tried to keep these amazing creatures.

1 - How many did you have?
2 - How long did you have them?
3 - What temperature did you keep your tank?
4 - What Salinity (ppt or SG) did you keep your tank?
5 - What was the average pH of your tank?
6 - What did you feed?
7 - How often did you feed?
8 - What was the fish's behavior/temperament in your tank?
9 - What tank mates did you keep them with?
10 - Are there any special comments/recommendation you have discovered with their care?

Photos/Videos are greatly appreciated.

1. Have one currently
2. About a year
3. 80F
4. 1.026
5. 8
6. Frozen mysis, brine, and pellets
7. once or twice a day
8. more peaceful than tangs, biggest fish in the tank so it's the king right now
9. dwarf angel, flasher wrasses, marine betta, etc.
10. Most important thing I learn is, moorish idols take food from rocks in the nature, not from water column. So to get it to eat, you need to put the food on rocks. I start with rubber band seaweeds on piece of rock everyday. Once it started eating that and settle down, it will learn from tank mates to pick food from water column, that took about a month for mine. But once it learn to take food from water, it soon became the pig of the tank. After that, I didn't bother to give it seaweed anymore.

 

[Ammar Boubes]

I acquired a pair about a year ago, not sure if they were male and female. I bought them online after the retailer had had them for a couple of months and they were eating pellets in his tank. Both fish came healthy and started eating the next day, I fed them pellets, nori, LRS, mysid shrimp among other frozen food. I have a 500g Zeroedge tank, and unfortunately, one managed to jump out and lost it. I bought another pair from LA but the established fish bullied them and had to remove them. The M was housed in a reef tank and it turned into my LPS and had to remove it six months laterl. I think the key is to make sure they're eating before you buy them, and then it's a gamble in a reef tank.

 

[Forsaken77]

Imo, some fish suffer in captivity, and this is one of them. Like Paul B said, the fish has an enormous range that it swims in. Most reef fish stick to a small area of the reef depending how big the reef is. Taking a fish that instinctively roams free of barriers, and throwing it in a glass box, is like putting a tiger in a cage.

And on top of that, it's an expert-only type of fish. Not saying you, but most hobbyists aren't capable, dedicated enough, or knowledgeable enough to keep them alive long in captivity. Like the Twin Spot Goby, and to a certain degree, a wild caught Mandarin, should only be kept by people that can meet their demanding requirements, or not kept at all. Too many people buy fish they aren't capable of maintaining. And if a fish like this is purchased, it should really only be purchased as a small juvenile. Adults will probably have a very difficult time acclimating to captivity.

Like someone else said, some fish are better left in the ocean.

 

[ReefBeta]

Imo, some fish suffer in captivity, and this is one of them. Like Paul B said, the fish has an enormous range that it swims in. Most reef fish stick to a small area of the reef depending how big the reef is. Taking a fish that instinctively roams free of barriers, and throwing it in a glass box, is like putting a tiger in a cage.

And on top of that, it's an expert-only type of fish. Not saying you, but most hobbyists aren't capable, dedicated enough, or knowledgeable enough to keep them alive long in captivity. Like the Twin Spot Goby, and to a certain degree, a wild caught Mandarin, should only be kept by people that can meet their demanding requirements, or not kept at all. Too many people buy fish they aren't capable of maintaining. And if a fish like this is purchased, it should really only be purchased as a small juvenile. Adults will probably have a very difficult time acclimating to captivity.

Like someone else said, some fish are better left in the ocean.

Tangs and Angelfish cover similar range in the reef though, aren't they?

These kind of statement is pretty useless. I pretty sure OP know that already, and is here to try learn to how to get into the so call "expert" domain. It's really not that hard for Moorish Idols if you know how. Also all experts of keeping difficult fish start from somewhere, one have to learn their way up. The difference is learn by making mistake and resulted in dead fish, or learn by others successful lessons. I think later is preferable, amirite? I would rather help others and get help to get better at keeping fish that I didn't know how to before, than discourage others and get discouraged to learn.

BTW, for fish that's better left in the ocean? I'm more concern on tuna in the supermarket that moorish idols in fish store to be honest.

 

[Forsaken77]

Tangs and Angelfish cover similar range in the reef though, aren't they?

These kind of statement is pretty useless. I pretty sure OP know that already, and is here to try learn to how to get into the so call "expert" domain. It's really not that hard for Moorish Idols if you know how. Also all experts of keeping difficult fish start from somewhere, one have to learn their way up. The difference is learn by making mistake and resulted in dead fish, or learn by others successful lessons. I think later is preferable, amirite? I would rather help others and get help to get better at keeping fish that I didn't know how to before, than discourage others and get discouraged to learn.

BTW, for fish that's better left in the ocean? I'm more concern on tuna in the supermarket that moorish idols in fish store to be honest.

You are right. But I stated I wasn't directing the comment at the OP, but in general terms where someone walks into a fish store and just buys an expert-only fish (special needs fish) with no knowledge on how to take care of it . This happens all too often and the animals are the ones suffering from it. The fish stores don't care and just want to sell the fish as fast as possible.

Coming here and learning is the best way to go about that, but IN GENERAL, how many people do that before buying a fish at the store? I worked at a retail fish store and seen it happen everyday. I wasn't trying to discourage him at all. Was just making a blanket statement on expert-only fish.

The general public rarely researches a fish before buying it and only when it's dying they start to ask questions. We are a niche group my friend.

So the "better left in the ocean" takes into account everyone buying fish, not the people here that are researching a fish beforehand, which is the correct way to go about it. I also said these type of fish should only be kept by people willing to meet the needs of the fish and the OP sounds like he's ready to do that. Better to know what you're getting yourself into.

BRS also said the same thing about the twin spot goby in one of their videos on the BRS 160. And they have that fish in their tank and still said it's better left in the ocean because overall, more fish will die because of uneducated hobbyists buying it for looks. I hope that clears up what I was talking about.

 

[ReefBeta]

You are right. But I stated I wasn't directing the comment at the OP, but in general terms where someone walks into a fish store and just buys an expert-only fish with no knowledge on how to take care of it . This happens all too often and the animals are the ones suffering from it. The fish stores don't care and just want to sell the fish as fast as possible.

Coming here and learning is the best way to go about that, but IN GENERAL, how many people do that before buying a fish at the store. Wasn't trying to discourage him at all. Was just making a blanket statement on expert-only fish (special needs fish).

The general public rarely researches a fish before buying it and only when it's dying they start to ask questions. We are a niche group my friend.

So the "better left in the ocean" takes into account everyone buying fish, not the people here that are researching a fish beforehand, which is the correct way to go about it.

BRS also said the same thing about the twin spot goby in one of their videos on the BRS 160. And they have that fish in that tank

Fair enough. Maybe it's just me having different expectation of this forum, and thinking people don't bother to research won't bother to check forums like this anyway.

 

[Forsaken77]

Fair enough. Maybe it's just me having different expectation of this forum, and thinking people don't bother to research won't bother to check forums like this anyway.

Some do research, more don't. People even on this forum know they should QT a fish when they get it, but they don't. And then they're here saying "I know I should've QT'd the fish and didn't, now I have disease in my tank." See what I'm saying?

Just a quick example... How many people do you think went out to try to buy their kid a Hippo Tang because of the movie "Finding Dori" without having any knowledge about the fish's needs? And that's not even a specialized fish, but they weren't informed of what having that fish involves.

There's people, like on this forum, that take fish & reef keeping seriously and there's people that say it's just a fish. If it dies, no big deal.

 

[ReefBeta]

Some do research, more don't. People even on this forum know they should QT a fish when they get it, but they don't. And then they're here saying "I know I should've QT'd the fish and didn't, now I have disease in my tank." See what I'm saying?

Just a quick example... How many people do you think went out to try to buy their kid a Hippo Tang because of the movie "Finding Dori" without having any knowledge about the fish's needs? And that's not even a specialized fish, but they weren't informed of what having that fish involves.

There's people, like on this forum, that take fish & reef keeping seriously and there's people that say it's just a fish. If it dies, no big deal.

Yeah, then every time a question about "How to keep <difficult fish>" it inevitably off track to "You'd better not try <difficult fish>". It's not helpful. This is not the "help my <didn't research prior buying fish> is dying plz halp" thread, why it still has to suffer the "better left in the ocean" propaganda. Well maybe it's my fault to reply to your initial comment, my rage at aimlessness of such propaganda caused more harm than good at protecting the helpfulness of the thread. Should have left it there and it may just slip through. I apologize.

 

[Paul B]

Tangs and Angelfish cover similar range in the reef though, aren't they?

No, they are not the same. I have spent many hours underwater with tangs and Moorish Idols and they are completely different. Moorish Idols are more closely related to butterflies than tangs but are in a completely different class and they are the only fish in that class. Tangs and angelfish swim a little then nibble some algae or something else. Moorish Idols swim 50 or 100 yards before they head to the bottom to a spot that they know and nibble some mulm or sponge. Then the female meets them there and he swims another 50 or 100 yards to the next spot.
Completely different fish, no comparism.

Why people say this is one fish that should be left in the ocean is because no one, I mean no one has kept one successfully. If absolutely no one has kept even one, that may be a reason not to try with that particular fish. Idols are the only fish that I think we can't yet keep and they never may be able to be kept in a home tank.
I hear people saying they have success because their idol is 9 months, 2 years or 7 years old. That is a complete failure. That is like a person living 10 years. Is that a success.

If it is an expert only fish, even experts cant keep them. I have been keeping then almost fifty years and spent many hours underwater with them. That particular fish needs the ocean. They just drop dead in a few years and until we find out why, we are just needlessly killing them.
I won't say not to try them because that is not my place. But if you put it in a tank and feed it clams, pellets, algae, angelfood, LRS or baked Alaska, you will kill that fish probably in a few years. 9 months is no success with any fish.
That fish should live at "least" 10 or 15 years. And even that is probably a failure. Almost all the fish we keep should live that long.
Just my opinion.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

I am fully aware that these fish are difficult. So I wanted to pick the brains of everyone here who has tried keeping them so I can kind of pool the collective data and find some kind of median line of where people were most successful. I have done the same with some of my other fish as well. As I stated earlier, I am lucky enough that I have a spawning pair of mandarins in my 125g tank, so not only have I been fortunate to keep them fed, but happy enough they are spawning - which is something I do pride myself on (and while they have been trained onto frozen and caught eating @Reef Nutrition TDO), there are so many pods that you can't see in my tank at night - ok, slight exaggeration, but only slight.

I personally believe that as long as there is forethought and planning anyone can be successful with any fish. Some fish just take more forethought and planning, like the Moorish Idol. Hence my post and list of questions.

I did however realize I left one important question off, which is size of tank...

I am now slightly concerned about the couple reports of them nipping/eating corals.

But I also have a 400gal industrial style tank sitting outside that might become a Moorish Idol study tank....

 

[eatbreakfast]

All of Paul B's fish spawn, and his advice is sound.

Also, if you do try it, I do hope you change your mind about keeping 3.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

All of Paul B's fish spawn, and his advice is sound.

Also, if you do try it, I do hope you change your mind about keeping 3.

Right now I am at doing only 1, thanks to everyone's advice. It looks like that is how I am going to be the most successful.

 

[Paul B]

I personally believe that as long as there is forethought and planning anyone can be successful with any fish.

I do not agree with this. "Anyone" can be successful if the correct parameters are kept and most of them can. "Except" the size of the tank. Moorish Idols can be kept in public aquariums with hundreds of thousands of gallons of water, but that fish may "need" a very large volume of water and if that is the case, we will never keep them successfully in a "home" tank of a few hundred gallons.
Like I said, no one has kept one for it's presumed lifespan. I "think" I heard of one ten years old but I don't remember the details.

I am now slightly concerned about the couple reports of them nipping/eating corals.

In all the years I kept them and watching them in the sea, I have never seen them nip corals. They eat mulm and sponges, not corals.

Js.Aqua project. More importantly are you OK with this hurricane coming? I wish you well and pray for your safety as I have friends in the Keys.

 

[Paul B]

Js.Aqua.Project. If you want to experiment with this fish, try to feed it many times a day as I did with the feeder. They are huge eaters and I think that is the case because they eat what no other fish eats, mulm, which is dead, dying algae along with bacteria and possibly mixed with pods or other microscope creatures. The sponge they eat is also not eaten by anything that I know if and has little nutrition but rich in calcium (I think) due to the structures that hold the sponge together but that could be chiten, I am not sure. As was stated, they will eat other things as algae, clam, pellets and probably cardboard. They want to and need to eat large amounts every day as they do in the sea. That will keep them alive for a few years. IMO, there is something in their diet we can't yet duplicate and after a few years it catches up with them. That and our failure to provide them the space they need.

Good Luck

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Js.Aqua project. More importantly are you OK with this hurricane coming? I wish you well and pray for your safety as I have friends in the Keys.

I live in Ocala (about an hour north of Orlando), I have begun prepping the house and valuables (see image [emoji6] - I am a Music Teacher after all - house is a mess due to the hasty packing).

I am fortunate enough to have a generator that can power my house except for the well and AC, so all of the tanks should be fine.

Our concern is that our house is under trees. So my wife and 3 month old son left this morning for her mom's in North Alabama (that was hard to watch). She manages an LFS so I am staying behind to take care of the house and shop. I will be staying at my parents at least to be out from under the trees.

 

[Paul B]

Good Move, I wish you guys well.

 

[azreeftank]

My first attempt at one and so far it's been just short of 5 years and he's doing great. My tank is 250 half circle and he is in there with a lot of fish. My first thing was long and proper QT by himself to get him to eat, I had him alone for almost 3 months and that got him eating like a pig. Once I introduced him to the tank only my Achilles tank seemed to care for a day or so. The MI was the last large fish I added he now eats anything and everything I feed him. He is with 5 different tangs and he alone eats 1 large sheet of Nori per day. I mix purple and green. I feed LRS and large pellets soaked twice a day morning and night. Then I have a feeder with spirulina flakes and pellet that feeds a small amount mid day while at work. I fed sponge the first year or so and then stopped and have not seen a change. He won't touch anything live in my reef Except Acans he loves them so I can't keep them. I'm in AZ so my tank stays 79-80 all year with the climate and ac running year round at home it never gets below that and it seems to do great. I think keys to success is keeping only one, proper Qt and mixing diet and include lots of Nori. I never fed him clams because I keep 2 large Máximas and 1 Deresa clam so don't want to tempt him with that expensive meal. Overall my MI and Achilles tang are my favorite fish and I have catered my tank around those 2 fish. Good luck it's a great fish but I would only keep one!

 

[Reef Nutrition]

@Js.Aqua.Project Since it appears people are soaking pellets, you could always soak the TDO in our phytoplankton and/or Oyster-Feast. It's something that no one has ever tried. I will do some experimentation at the farm and let you know how the food responds to this treatment. I can imagine that TDO soaked in Oyster-Feast would be incredibly enticing. I have a clownfish that eats Oyster-Feast and Phyto-Feast right out of my pipette. I need to post a video of that!

Chad