Moorish Idols

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Okay, so before anyone jumps down my throat about the low success rate of these beautiful fish in aquaria, please read.

I have always had an interest in having a small school (3) of Moorish Idols. I am currently designing a 240gal tank build and would like take any steps I can to be successful with them. No, I have not already purchased or ordered them and don't intend to do so until the tank has been running and stable, and I have the confidence to give them a try. I know these fish are wild caught and I do not want to take any from the ocean without the confidence I can keep them happy.

So I have some questions I would love to see answered from anyone who has had or tried to keep these amazing creatures.

1 - How many did you have?
2 - How long did you have them?
3 - What temperature did you keep your tank?
4 - What Salinity (ppt or SG) did you keep your tank?
5 - What was the average pH of your tank?
6 - What did you feed?
7 - How often did you feed?
8 - What was the fish's behavior/temperament in your tank?
9 - What tank mates did you keep them with?
10 - Are there any special comments/recommendation you have discovered with their care?

Photos/Videos are greatly appreciated.

 

[GHsaltie]

Bump

 

[Paul B]

I have been keeping Moorish Idols sporatically since the 70s. I had as much luck as everyone else which was not to much. Then I decided to go diving with them in Bora Bora to try to learn their secrets. I didn't go there just for that, it was a vacation) Ispent about 10 hours with them underwater and saw what they eat and how they make their living. I noticed they have a huge range, probably 100 yards around that they cruise constantly. The male goes off to find food, which in Tahiti was always this lime green sponge. He would eat some and a few minutes later the female would show up, he would leave to find more sponge, and she would finish off that piece. That is what they did all day.
Here in New York I found a sponge that only grows on floating wooden docks. It is very common so I took some and tried it on my last Idol. He loved it and would jump out of the water for it. I would freeze the sponge because I couldn't keep it alive for even a day, and I would give him a piece every day. Besides the sponge (because I couldn't collect enough of it to feed him just that) I built a feeder for him. I put a small dish on my gravel and had a tube going up to the surface. On top of the tube I had a funnel and above that a dry food feeder. 5 or 6 times a day the feeder would deposit pellets that I first soaked in fish oil into the funnel. The Idol would watch the pellets fall and immediately eat them as soon as they made it to the dish. Besides the sponge and the pellets, I gave him, and all my fish live blackworms every day.
I kept that fish for five years before I killed him and almost all my fish in a stupid accident where my town added zinc orthophosphate to the water supply just before I did a water change.
Anyway, five years for almost any fish is a failure so that was a failure, but five years for that fish was almost a record.
They need to eat constantly and are huge eaters. I doubt the sponge they eat has much nutrition so they eat a lot of it all day. Their huge appetite and need to travel long distances I feel is a big detriment to our keeping them although now that I discovered their secret, I think I can keep them successfully for 10 years or so which I am "guessing" is their life span. My tank is only 100 gallons and Idols get big so my tank was also to small although I don't think that affected him to much as I got him as a baby.



I recently dove with them in Hawaii where they are the most common fish there and can eat the "mulm" all over the rocks there.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Has anyone else had any long-term success that can offer answers to my questions?

 

[4FordFamily]

Few have had long term success, until my accident, I feel like I was doing pretty well.

I did write an article on the matter:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/keeping-the-mysterious-moorish-idol.72/

 

[jpreefer]

A fish best left in the ocean.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Few have had long term success, until my accident, I feel like I was doing pretty well.

I did write an article on the matter:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/keeping-the-mysterious-moorish-idol.72/

I read your write up last night and found it very educational. I am laying out my 240 around the idea of keeping them so I am hoping as @Paul B stated they will have enough room to swim.

 

[locito277]

Whatever you do add them together. I finally got one eating and flourishing temporarily at least. I took Paul B suggestion about perhaps keeping them in a group would make the long term possibilities better. He didn't take kindly to the new guy :-(

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Whatever you do add them together. I finally got one eating and flourishing temporarily at least. I took Paul B suggestion about perhaps keeping them in a group would make the long term possibilities better. He didn't take kindly to the new guy :-(

Point taken.

My plan is to find 3, all small, then QT and add them together.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Moorish idols are intolerant of their own kind, unless they are a pr. I've never seen a true pr in aquaria. When kept in groups one picks on the others and eventually kills them. Once you habe one eating and picking on the others, I would strongly recommend rehoming the others.

 

[Paul B]

The ones I followed in the sea were obviously mated pairs. Maybe they mate for life? The mated pairs don't hang around with each other like other mated fish, these guys swim 100 yards from each other around "their" section of a reef and meet up every 10 minutes or so. They are long distance swimmers and maybe they need that in a tank which may be the reason for their dismal survival in a tank. They are very common and all over the south Pacific. They are also large eaters and it is hard to fed them enough as they constantly eat. They do not live on what aquarists normally feed them and they are not really algae eaters although they may eat it. As I said in Tahiti, they eat mostly sponge, but in Hawaii where they are very common they live on mulm which is all over everything in Hawaii and nothing else but urchins eat it.
Their diet is very low in nutrition unlike almost all fish which forces them to pick all day. Here in Hawaii urchins and Idols are the only things around because there is nothing for other fish to eat.



They pick on this stuff which is a combination of live, dead and dying hair algae and mulm along with sponges. This is a difficult diet to provide in a tank. The sponges I found seems to keep them going but I can only collect that in the summer and freeze it. I think if I had a larger tank, which I may have in a few months, I would be able to keep them alive for their normal lifespan. But if you want to get one and try to feed it normal foods like LRS or brine shrimp and soak it in some Selcon, you probably will not be very successful. I have had probably a dozen Idols going back to the 70s as they were one of the first fish imported for some stupid reason.



You can see from a page in my Log Book in 1976, I had them then.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

The ones I followed in the sea were obviously mated pairs. Maybe they mate for life? The mated pairs don't hang around with each other like other mated fish, these guys swim 100 yards from each other around "their" section of a reef and meet up every 10 minutes or so. They are long distance swimmers and maybe they need that in a tank which may be the reason for their dismal survival in a tank. They are very common and all over the south Pacific. They are also large eaters and it is hard to fed them enough as they constantly eat. They do not live on what aquarists normally feed them and they are not really algae eaters although they may eat it. As I said in Tahiti, they eat mostly sponge, but in Hawaii where they are very common they live on mulm which is all over everything in Hawaii and nothing else but urchins eat it.
Their diet is very low in nutrition unlike almost all fish which forces them to pick all day. Here in Hawaii urchins and Idols are the only things around because there is nothing for other fish to eat.



They pick on this stuff which is a combination of live, dead and dying hair algae and mulm along with sponges. This is a difficult diet to provide in a tank. The sponges I found seems to keep them going but I can only collect that in the summer and freeze it. I think if I had a larger tank, which I may have in a few months, I would be able to keep them alive for their normal lifespan. But if you want to get one and try to feed it normal foods like LRS or brine shrimp and soak it in some Selcon, you probably will not be very successful. I have had probably a dozen Idols going back to the 70s as they were one of the first fish imported for some stupid reason.



You can see from a page in my Log Book in 1976, I had them then.

My first reaction is that your handwriting is impeccable.

From all of my reading I am finding that their dietary needs are going to be the main difficult item about them. I am however considering now only doing a single Idol instead of a small school.

I am trying to get the 240 to be what I consider a "display breeding" tank - I want as many of the species I put in there to be spawning as possible, but the tank still be an attractive display piece rather than the normal drab breeding set up. I already have spawning mandarins in my 125 (I have collected eggs a few times to verify they are viable - they are - but have not had the time to try to rear them yet) that will be making the move. I also plan on getting a harem of leopard wrasse, a jawfish pair, as well as some other fish tbd all with the intent of getting them breeding.

 

[Paul B]

I am not sure an Idol will ever spawn in a home tank although I see no reason they can't spawn in a huge public aquarium tank. I think they would chase the female many yards for spawning but I am guessing as I never saw any of them spawning. The young school but the adults are loners and their mates are very far away and I am not sure how they find each other. I killed mine in an accident after about 5 years but I think, with the sponge diet that I collect and my Idol feeder I could keep them in a larger tank, maybe your 240 will be sufficient. But their secret is they need to eat many times a day. They have a mouth unlike any fish I have seen, it is more like a puffin bird and doesn't seem very strong. I don't think they could bite pieces off of anything but their food is soft and mushy like slimy sponge and mulm.
I wish they were easier to keep because they are agreeably the nicest and most graceful looking salt water fish and they are very common so there is no chance of depleting them for a while. I also wish people would not "try" them because they feed commercially prepared foods (even though they advertise there is some sponge in it) and throw some selcon on it. Many of these fish eat "nothing" but sponge which is why many of them never eat in captivity. Their diet is determined by where they come from. That picture I took of them in Hawaii you can only see a Moorish Idol, that is because no other fish were on that entire reef as no other fish eats that food.

I stupidly tried to keep quite a few of them and had dismal luck until I dove with them and spent a few hours just following them in the sea. Not like a tourist, but like a fish.
Tourist diving won't teach you much. I go to a place and find a guide who lives there, tell him (or her) what I am looking for and he (or she) takes me there and leaves me alone until I run out of air or remember I left my cellphone in my Speedo. :eek:
That's how you learn about fish and it is cheaper than going diving with a bunch of tourists where they take you to places where 50,000 tourists went the day before.

My first reaction is that your handwriting is impeccable.

Thank you. When I was in grammar school My teacher called my Mother into school because we were learning to print. The teacher told my Mother I was doing my printing homework using a ruler and I was supposed to do it freehand. My Mother made me print in front of the teacher to show her. Then the teacher made me print the alphabet and she hung each letter around the classroom to teach the letters.
Those letters stayed up there until I graduated from grammar school and I was very proud.
But Math, I sucked at. :p

 

[DRoth335]

Responses to your questions:
1 - How many did you have? Tried to have 2 of them which was great for about 3-4 days and then it became an all out battle. Had to separate the loser (hard to tell which was the loser as they both had torn each others fins pretty badly). Both did heal up and I rehomed one with a friend. I would advise against getting more than one as I've heard of others with similar experiences.
2 - How long did you have them? Have him 2 years and counting (still have him)
3 - What temperature did you keep your tank? 79 winter 80 summer
4 - What Salinity (ppt or SG) did you keep your tank? 1.026
5 - What was the average pH of your tank? ~8.0
6 - What did you feed? Fed live clams from grocery for the first couple of months in addition to our current feeding regime of lots of Nori, DIY mix and NLS pellets. He is a pig and has more than doubled in size.
7 - How often did you feed? Nori, DIY 1x/day and NLS pellets 2x/day via autofeeder.
8 - What was the fish's behavior/temperament in your tank? He is an active swimmer and my wife's favorite fish (snorkeling in HI made him a "must have" from her perspective and I had talked her out of it for years before researching and deciding to get one.
9 - What tank mates did you keep them with? he shares the tank with Goldflake angel, blueface angel, regal angel, flame angel, potters angel, huge sailfin tang, blue tang, one-spot foxface, Pakistani butterfly, mandarin and 2 mocha clowns.
10 - Are there any special comments/recommendation you have discovered with their care? Keep well fed. I don't think they are as fragile a fish as I originally had thought. Once established and he gained size (grows much faster than angels do IME) he has moved up the pecking order so he really only defers to the sailfin (who has a large size advantage) when it comes to who gets to eat at the algae clip next.

Good luck with your idol(s) - keep us posted on progress.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

@Reef Nutrition can we get a specialized diet? :p

 

[Reef Nutrition]

@Reef Nutrition can we get a specialized diet? :p

That's a tall order! LOL If they eat TDO, that would be a huge plus!

Chad

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

That's a tall order! LOL If they eat TDO, that would be a huge plus!

Chad

Well, according to @DRoth335 they took to eating NLS pellets, don't see why they can't be trained over to TDO!

Maybe a new "Idol TDO" line that incorporates sponge...

Just the idle musings of a dreamer....

 

[Black Pearl]

This is M, eats anything. I had two, M started abusing the other, I separated them the other lasted about another week or two. M didn't eat well from the beginning, took about seven days before eating. Started out with clams from the market, then pellets soaked in garlic. M would only eat them if they were rolling along the bottom, but that was long ago. I've had M for about a year. I also feed Hikari mega marine angle frozen cubes it's sponge rich

 

[Paul B]

Moorish Idols tend to last a few years, eat like a pig, look great, then croak for no seeming reason. The fact that they eat doesn't mean much as I have had maybe 12 of them and they all ate. We don't yet now what makes them drop dead in a few years. 4 or 5 years with that fish, as with most fish is a "complete" failure. We keep trying but I have only heard of maybe one person that kept one for 6 or 7 years and that is out of the thousands of them that people have kept.

 

[Mustbenuts]

Okay, so before anyone jumps down my throat about the low success rate of these beautiful fish in aquaria, please read.

I have always had an interest in having a small school (3) of Moorish Idols. I am currently designing a 240gal tank build and would like take any steps I can to be successful with them. No, I have not already purchased or ordered them and don't intend to do so until the tank has been running and stable, and I have the confidence to give them a try. I know these fish are wild caught and I do not want to take any from the ocean without the confidence I can keep them happy.

So I have some questions I would love to see answered from anyone who has had or tried to keep these amazing creatures.

1 - How many did you have?
2 - How long did you have them?
3 - What temperature did you keep your tank?
4 - What Salinity (ppt or SG) did you keep your tank?
5 - What was the average pH of your tank?
6 - What did you feed?
7 - How often did you feed?
8 - What was the fish's behavior/temperament in your tank?
9 - What tank mates did you keep them with?
10 - Are there any special comments/recommendation you have discovered with their care?

Photos/Videos are greatly appreciated.

To succeed with Moorish Idol you must buy only juvenile ones as these will be much easier to start feeding, then you feed them dried Japanese Nori sheets that you can buy from the supermarkets and once they are used to feeding you can start trying other foods, but most important the fish you will keep with these must not be faster feeders than the Idol as these are shy fish and will starve if there is too much competition for food.