My QT Tank crashed!

[Eye H8 Empty V]

So I started my QT tnak a few days ago. It's a 33gal tank with an metal halide that I picked up for $100 a few years ago. I has a total of 8 very small fish, 3 pairs of clowns, a yellow coris wrasse and tiny tomini tang. I had a big algae bloom due to not being able to control the water temp. It got up to 86 and I brought it down slowly by floating bags, opening the lid and garage door. Eventually I got it back down to 79 thanks to the change in weather and did a 50% water change in order to dilute the algae. My CU level had just gotten to 2.57 ppm so restarting the cycle wasn't a big deal.

So everything seemed fine until last night.

Yesterday afternoon the tank temp was stabilized and fish were eating and active. The yellow coris wrasse jumped into the overflow twice but I remedied that (we had a long talk about proper behavior). Last night I went to turn the lights on to feed and it was like someone had dropped cyanide in the tank. The tomini tang was barely breathing, one of the black & white clowns was out for the count, and the yellow coris wrasse looked to be on his last fin. I did an immediate 99% water change and removed a pair of the clown for my office tank which will be the only inhabitants. In the end we lost the tomini tang and black & white clown. Everyone else is looking active and eating as of 24 hours later. After the adrenaline and emotions calmed my oldest daughter and I performed some water tests as I saved a good amount for this reason. My test results are below. Any ideas what might have happened?

PH 7.8
Cu 1.36
dKh 8.5
Phosphate 0.3 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm
Calcium 420 ppm

 

[Tamberav]

Was the tank cycled? 8 fish in a 33g is a lot.

Not only bioload but oxygen demand.

Is the lid mesh or glass? What did you have for flow/surface agitation?

Right now I want to blame lack of oxygen as I almost lost an entire batch of fish when an air bubbler quit working. Two biggest died and all the others were laying sideways on the bottom. They all lived/recovered quickly once removed to a fresh batch of salt. I feel bad ammonia poisoning leads to worse long term effects from damage gills and burns.

 

[Eye H8 Empty V]

I added Nitrobacter 7 the day before. I was told that since there isn't any real surface area for the bacteria to multiple on it doesn't need to cycle.

The lid is a solid black plastic that houses the lights. It's more of a canopy than a lid.

I figured because of the size of the fish it would be fine but this is my first rodeo in a long time. The plan was to QT in batches for my 90gal DT but that may be the rushed and wrong approach.

It has an overflow with a pump that produces a lot of flow. My wife made a comment that she thought it had too much flow. I dropped some 1.5" schedule 80 fittings in for hiding places. Last night after the water change I added a Nero 5 powerhead on a very low setting and an air stone in an attempt to increase oxygen.

 

[vetteguy53081]

There is no doubt an oxygen issue with saturated oxygen and sudden temperature changes causing osmotic shock.
Also , concerning is Copper. Are you using cupramine or coppersafe?
How are you monitoring copper levels ?

 

[Eye H8 Empty V]

There is no doubt an oxygen issue with saturated oxygen and sudden temperature changes causing osmotic shock.
Also , concerning is Copper. Are you using cupramine or coppersafe?
How are you monitoring copper levels ?

Copy that! I'm using copper safe with the high range hanna checker. BTW my dad has had an '82 crossfire shark he got in '83 I'm trying to convince to ship me . I remember driving around with him as a kid listening to Kenny Rogers on cassette tape.

Billy

 

[Tamberav]

I added Nitrobacter 7 the day before. I was told that since there isn't any real surface area for the bacteria to multiple on it doesn't need to cycle.

The lid is a solid black plastic that houses the lights. It's more of a canopy than a lid.

I figured because of the size of the fish it would be fine but this is my first rodeo in a long time. The plan was to QT in batches for my 90gal DT but that may be the rushed and wrong approach.

It has an overflow with a pump that produces a lot of flow. My wife made a comment that she thought it had too much flow. I dropped some 1.5" schedule 80 fittings in for hiding places. Last night after the water change I added a Nero 5 powerhead on a very low setting and an air stone in an attempt to increase oxygen.

You just put an aquarium sponge in the filter and bacteria will grow there or bioballs or what not.

A cycled tank is always better, the only reason to not cycle it is because of an emergency. Even in small amount ammonia is toxic to fish. If there isn’t a reason to be in a hurry, cycle it. It’s very fast with biospira and some media for the bacteria to colonize.

Microbacter is a bacterial additive, possibly contributing to the oxygen issue if it bloomed at all.

Sounds like an enclosed lid which limits gas exchange, high temps decrease oxygen and too many fish which means increased oxygen use. I would do like maybe 3 in 33g for QT.

Yes I would say the fish suffocated since the survivors are fine now and not showing any residual ammonia poisoning.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Copy that! I'm using copper safe with the high range hanna checker. BTW my dad has had an '82 crossfire shark he got in '83 I'm trying to convince to ship me . I remember driving around with him as a kid listening to Kenny Rogers on cassette tape.

Billy

Coppersafe is mis-dosed. Coppersafe should be dosed at therapuetic level 2.25-2.5 for FULL 30 days and monitored with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand, not Api
You Also have to monitor ammonia level with a reliable test kit during treatment and would not be a bad idea to add an air stone for added oxygen during treatment

 

[Eye H8 Empty V]

Coppersafe is mis-dosed. Coppersafe should be dosed at therapuetic level 2.25-2.5 for FULL 30 days and monitored with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand, not Api
You Also have to monitor ammonia level with a reliable test kit during treatment and would not be a bad idea to add an air stone for added oxygen during treatment

I was wrong, I'm using copper power. I've got the ammonia badge and it was yellow <0.02 ppm. Do you have a recommendation for a good ammonia test kit? I'll need one for my 90gal DT too. Thanks!

Billy

 

[vetteguy53081]

I was wrong, I'm using copper power. I've got the ammonia badge and it was yellow <0.02 ppm. Do you have a recommendation for a good ammonia test kit? I'll need one for my 90gal DT too. Thanks!

Billy

Yes salifert or Hanna kit. I trust a politician more than I trust the badge which is VERY unreliable and also for freshwater which questions reliability. When new - I trust them but sticking in water with chemistry changes and dosages- im not confident in readings thereafter

 

[Eye H8 Empty V]

You just put an aquarium sponge in the filter and bacteria will grow there or bioballs or what not.

A cycled tank is always better, the only reason to not cycle it is because of an emergency. Even in small amount ammonia is toxic to fish. If there isn’t a reason to be in a hurry, cycle it. It’s very fast with biospira and some media for the bacteria to colonize.

Microbacter is a bacterial additive, possibly contributing to the oxygen issue if it bloomed at all.

Sounds like an enclosed lid which limits gas exchange, high temps decrease oxygen and too many fish which means increased oxygen use. I would do like maybe 3 in 33g for QT.

Yes I would say the fish suffocated since the survivors are fine now and not showing any residual ammonia poisoning.

The overflow has 2 very open cell sponges in the back but I tossed them today. I rinsed them with RO water before filling the tank but wanted to rule them out as a potential threat. I had on hand 3 of the sponges in the pic so I rinsed those in RO and put them in without any of the hardware tonight.

Thanks for the insight and suggestions!

Billy

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I started my QT tnak a few days ago. It's a 33gal tank with an metal halide that I picked up for $100 a few years ago. I has a total of 8 very small fish, 3 pairs of clowns, a yellow coris wrasse and tiny tomini tang. I had a big algae bloom due to not being able to control the water temp. It got up to 86 and I brought it down slowly by floating bags, opening the lid and garage door. Eventually I got it back down to 79 thanks to the change in weather and did a 50% water change in order to dilute the algae. My CU level had just gotten to 2.57 ppm so restarting the cycle wasn't a big deal.

So everything seemed fine until last night.

Yesterday afternoon the tank temp was stabilized and fish were eating and active. The yellow coris wrasse jumped into the overflow twice but I remedied that (we had a long talk about proper behavior). Last night I went to turn the lights on to feed and it was like someone had dropped cyanide in the tank. The tomini tang was barely breathing, one of the black & white clowns was out for the count, and the yellow coris wrasse looked to be on his last fin. I did an immediate 99% water change and removed a pair of the clown for my office tank which will be the only inhabitants. In the end we lost the tomini tang and black & white clown. Everyone else is looking active and eating as of 24 hours later. After the adrenaline and emotions calmed my oldest daughter and I performed some water tests as I saved a good amount for this reason. My test results are below. Any ideas what might have happened?

PH 7.8
Cu 1.36
dKh 8.5
Phosphate 0.3 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm
Calcium 420 ppm

I would not use a metal halide over a quarantine tank - as you saw, they add heat, but they are also too bright and can stress the fish during the Q process. I use either just ambient room light, or fluorescent tubes over my QT. That said, it doesn't sound like this is directly related to the crash. You say it was an algae bloom? That could be related to the bright light, but it seems awfully fast to have started. Was the water greenish or whiteish? I'm wondering if it was a bacterial bloom, those come on faster. Either way - these blooms pull oxygen out of the water (the algae does so only at night). Your pH is rather low for a brand new tank. That is likely due to high carbon dioxide, which goes hand in hand with low oxygen. My thought is the tank crashed due to gas exchange issues....

Jay

 

[Eye H8 Empty V]

I would not use a metal halide over a quarantine tank - as you saw, they add heat, but they are also too bright and can stress the fish during the Q process. I use either just ambient room light, or fluorescent tubes over my QT. That said, it doesn't sound like this is directly related to the crash. You say it was an algae bloom? That could be related to the bright light, but it seems awfully fast to have started. Was the water greenish or whiteish? I'm wondering if it was a bacterial bloom, those come on faster. Either way - these blooms pull oxygen out of the water (the algae does so only at night). Your pH is rather low for a brand new tank. That is likely due to high carbon dioxide, which goes hand in hand with low oxygen. My thought is the tank crashed due to gas exchange issues....

Jay

Thanks Jay and you’re right it was a bacteria bloom not algae. My brain was in as much of a fog as my tank. I going to remove the canopy and replace with some cheap dimmable LED’s. Obviously I have no control over the halide less on/off. You can see in the video below that the water is very cloudy and there's a lot of particulate that's not being filtered. I think I had just fed too. I've cut back on feeding to just what they'll eat and replaced the sponges as well. Not sure if you saw the earlier post but I added an additional powerhead and air stone. Everyone looks great now!

Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I would feed the fish more slowly so that there isn't a lot of uneaten food in the tank - that just feeds the bacteria. You'll also want to monitor the ammonia level daily to ensure it doesn't go about 0.25 ppm

Jay

 

[Eye H8 Empty V]

I would feed the fish more slowly so that there isn't a lot of uneaten food in the tank - that just feeds the bacteria. You'll also want to monitor the ammonia level daily to ensure it doesn't go about 0.25 ppm

Jay

Will do thank you sir!

Billy