My tank might be going down… flukes, now brook? Help!

[bitstream]

I posted another thread about fish flashing last week and immediately started treatment for flukes using Prazipro.

The tank has 1 goby, 1 royal gramma, and 2 juvenile clowns, as well as 2 hermits and 3 snails. Also has a handful of corals. Tank is 4 months old and params are about as stable as you can hope for.

Today I noticed one clown has what I’m guessing is brook and the gramma, which is usually quite active and eats like a pig is MIA at feeding time today and I don’t see it at all. I also havent seen the goby in days but it hides all time anyway.

On the plus side, the clowns are still swimming and eating.

Needless to say, I’m concerned and on the verge of rage quitting this hobby. I don’t know why this is happening. Nothing new added to the tank save for a couple corals a few weeks ago, which were treated with CoralRx.

I’m at a loss and already kinda devastated. I want to enjoy this hobby, not have it be a point of stress.

 

[Sharkbait19]

When was the last fish added? I assume they weren’t quarantined?
Have you noticed any change in breathing rate/how labored it looks?
With brook, you are most likely to see it in the clowns first, but it can infect any of your fish.

 

[bitstream]

When was the last fish added? I assume they weren’t quarantined?
Have you noticed any change in breathing rate/how labored it looks?
With brook, you are most likely to see it in the clowns first, but it can infect any of your fish.

All the fish were from the same store and went in at the same time not long after the tank was cycled. Corals have been added here and there over time, though not all were subject to quarantine.

At this point it’s not really about the past, but what to do moving forward.

I’m worried the gramma and/or goby could be dead in the rock work, but no way to tell unless I start ripping things apart. Really don’t want to complicate things if a decaying fish causes an ammonia spike.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I posted another thread about fish flashing last week and immediately started treatment for flukes using Prazipro.

The tank has 1 goby, 1 royal gramma, and 2 juvenile clowns, as well as 2 hermits and 3 snails. Also has a handful of corals. Tank is 4 months old and params are about as stable as you can hope for.

Today I noticed one clown has what I’m guessing is brook and the gramma, which is usually quite active and eats like a pig is MIA at feeding time today and I don’t see it at all. I also havent seen the goby in days but it hides all time anyway.

On the plus side, the clowns are still swimming and eating.

Needless to say, I’m concerned and on the verge of rage quitting this hobby. I don’t know why this is happening. Nothing new added to the tank save for a couple corals a few weeks ago, which were treated with CoralRx.

I’m at a loss and already kinda devastated. I want to enjoy this hobby, not have it be a point of stress.

Does appear to be brook but can also be bacterial. With brook, besides appearance, you will see lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus as well as a wobbly swim pattern. The mucus you often see generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

All the fish were from the same store and went in at the same time not long after the tank was cycled. Corals have been added here and there over time, though not all were subject to quarantine.

At this point it’s not really about the past, but what to do moving forward.

I’m worried the gramma and/or goby could be dead in the rock work, but no way to tell unless I start ripping things apart. Really don’t want to complicate things if a decaying fish causes an ammonia spike.

Sorry to hear, I know this is frustrating.

Small fish rarely cause an ammonia spike if they die in the tank. You can monitor the ammonia though, just to be safe.

Multiple concurrent diseases in fish is fairly common - the clown looks like it could have Brooklynella. It also has that weird "bruising" that I've written about - we don't know what causes that, but it is sometimes fatal:

Clownfish bruising/lesion?

All, Over the past two years or so, I've come across dozens of cases on the fish disease forum here of an issue with clownfish that we have not been able to identify. I've never seen it on any clownfish I've had myself, but the issue seems most common on designer clowns, which I don't work...

www.reef2reef.com

If you don't have a treatment tank, the only thing I can suggest is trying Ruby Reef Rally Pro for the Brooklynlla.

Jay

 

[bitstream]

Sorry to hear, I know this is frustrating.

Small fish rarely cause an ammonia spike if they die in the tank. You can monitor the ammonia though, just to be safe.

Multiple concurrent diseases in fish is fairly common - the clown looks like it could have Brooklynella. It also has that weird "bruising" that I've written about - we don't know what causes that, but it is sometimes fatal:

Clownfish bruising/lesion?

All, Over the past two years or so, I've come across dozens of cases on the fish disease forum here of an issue with clownfish that we have not been able to identify. I've never seen it on any clownfish I've had myself, but the issue seems most common on designer clowns, which I don't work...

www.reef2reef.com

If you don't have a treatment tank, the only thing I can suggest is trying Ruby Reef Rally Pro for the Brooklynlla.

Jay

I do have a 5 gallon tank I can use for quarantine but it isn’t set up.

I’m sort of thinking to treat the whole tank, though obviously have to figure out whether a given treatment will harm corals or inverts.

Under white light I don’t really see the brook or whatever is affecting this one fish, though it’s obvious under blue light as in the previous photo.

I did find the goby. There was some “meat” dangling from the random flow generator on my return. Pulled it out and I’d bet this is what’s left of the goby after using the return pump as a meat grinder:

 

[bitstream]

I squirted some water into the rockwork where the gramma hides and it did peek out for a second before going back in, so it’s alive. I didn’t get a good enough look at it to assess its condition. Not eating is not a good sign though.

 

[Sharkbait19]

How large is the tank? It’s possible there is bullying/intimidation from the clowns forcing the gramma to hide and killing the goby, along with a disease issue.

 

[bitstream]

How large is the tank? It’s possible there is bullying/intimidation from the clowns forcing the gramma to hide and killing the goby, along with a disease issue.

20 gallons. There’s no bullying. The clowns are juvenile, so quite tiny. They’ve been happy until stuff hit the fan last week.

 

[bitstream]

Sorry to hear, I know this is frustrating.

Small fish rarely cause an ammonia spike if they die in the tank. You can monitor the ammonia though, just to be safe.

Multiple concurrent diseases in fish is fairly common - the clown looks like it could have Brooklynella. It also has that weird "bruising" that I've written about - we don't know what causes that, but it is sometimes fatal:

Clownfish bruising/lesion?

All, Over the past two years or so, I've come across dozens of cases on the fish disease forum here of an issue with clownfish that we have not been able to identify. I've never seen it on any clownfish I've had myself, but the issue seems most common on designer clowns, which I don't work...

www.reef2reef.com

If you don't have a treatment tank, the only thing I can suggest is trying Ruby Reef Rally Pro for the Brooklynlla.

Jay

It says it can treat parasites. Would you suggest discontinuing PraziPro and switching to this?

I’d be treating the DT. Says it’s safe for inverts and corals, but honestly I’d rather risk those perishing than the fish.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Prazi doesn’t do anything for brook - ruby does.
Anything is best administered in qt for ease of dosing, but this can safely be used in the dt.

 

[bitstream]

Prazi doesn’t do anything for brook - ruby does.
Anything is best administered in qt for ease of dosing, but this can safely be used in the dt.

Correct, but it sounds like Ruby treats parasites. So it’s either dose both or if Ruby will continue to treat for flukes, then I’d switch. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

At this point I might as well treat the DT. I’d need time to set up a QT, get it cycled, heated, and I don’t even have filtration for my spare tank, so there’s that issue as well. Plus how to acclimate the fish as there’s the potential shock of tank transfer.

If the disease is in the tank, might as well try to save the entire tank in one go. I don’t see the upside to a QT when looking at things from that perspective.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Correct, but it sounds like Ruby treats parasites. So it’s either dose both or if Ruby will continue to treat for flukes, then I’d switch. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

At this point I might as well treat the DT. I’d need time to set up a QT, get it cycled, heated, and I don’t even have filtration for my spare tank, so there’s that issue as well. Plus how to acclimate the fish as there’s the potential shock of tank transfer.

If the disease is in the tank, might as well try to save the entire tank in one go. I don’t see the upside to a QT when looking at things from that perspective.

Ruby Reef makes a variety of claims about what it can treat, but in real world scenarios, the acriflavine in it treats Brooklynella, but none of its components are strong enough to treat flukes and often cannot treat ich either.

 

[bitstream]

Ruby Reef makes a variety of claims about what it can treat, but in real world scenarios, the acriflavine in it treats Brooklynella, but none of its components are strong enough to treat flukes and often cannot treat ich either.

Gotcha. So I still believe we have flukes, so would it make sense to treat with Ruby for 3 days, do a partial water change on Monday/Tuesday, then dose PraziPro again?

Any recommendations on dosing regimen are greatly appreciated!

 

[bitstream]

18 hours after the initial Rally Pro dose. One clown has more bruising and the brook is advancing — luckily it’s still eating. The brook on the other clown is very obvious now. It isn’t eating and doesn’t make an effort to swim above the bottom half of the tank.

Gramma is MIA. Tried using some squirts of water in the rock work to coax it out but no dice, so no idea if it’s alive or not. It didn’t come out to feed for the second day in a row.

Will be dosing again at 3:00pm, 24 hrs after the initial dose unless it’s fine to dose earlier in the day.

 

[bitstream]

Ruby Reef makes a variety of claims about what it can treat, but in real world scenarios, the acriflavine in it treats Brooklynella, but none of its components are strong enough to treat flukes and often cannot treat ich either.

One clown definitely has brook, but the other looks more like ich now. What do you think? Should I treat for Ich at the same time? I have some Ich-X on hand.

Btw - The Gramma is dead. Pulled up the rock work and there it was, lifeless in the rockwork.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

One clown definitely has brook, but the other looks more like ich now. What do you think? Should I treat for Ich at the same time? I have some Ich-X on hand.

Btw - The Gramma is dead. Pulled up the rock work and there it was, lifeless in the rockwork.

The second picture does seem to show Brooklynella, but the distinct spots can also be ich, so it could have infections of both at the same time (ugh).

Ich-X has a poor record for treating marine ich. I don't know how well it might work for Brooklynella though.

 

[bitstream]

The second picture does seem to show Brooklynella, but the distinct spots can also be ich, so it could have infections of both at the same time (ugh).

Ich-X has a poor record for treating marine ich. I don't know how well it might work for Brooklynella though.

The Rally Pro is certainly doing battle with the brook. It seems to be bad in the morning but gets better as the day progresses, then the process repeats.

Obviously Rally makes no claims regarding Ich, so was thinking about adding a secondary product for it, but I’m also due to dose PraziPro again on Monday, so am reluctant to subject the inhabitants to too many things at once.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The Rally Pro is certainly doing battle with the brook. It seems to be bad in the morning but gets better as the day progresses, then the process repeats.

Obviously Rally makes no claims regarding Ich, so was thinking about adding a secondary product for it, but I’m also due to dose PraziPro again on Monday, so am reluctant to subject the inhabitants to too many things at once.

Correct - too many treatments at one time is tough on the fish. I wish there was a single medication that actually works against Brooklynella and ich, but there is none.

 

[bitstream]

Correct - too many treatments at one time is tough on the fish. I wish there was a single medication that actually works against Brooklynella and ich, but there is none.

I had no choice but to throw some caution to the wind. I dosed Rally yesterday at 5:00pm and this morning, sadly, the remaining fish are clearly demonstrating the same behavior as before due to flukes. They’re spazzing and flashing like crazy. So, I threw some PraziPro in the tank this morning.

There appears to be less mucus on their coats, but still some white spots. One clown appears to be losing parts of its fins. The other is swimming full speed into the flow of a 1000gph power head.

All I can do at this point is cross my fingers and hope for the best.