N03/P04 dosing for Elegant Coral Dino Method

[Panicked Reefer]

My tank has rapidly depleted my N03/P04 on day 2 of Elegant Corals Dino method. I went from 2.5N to 0.1N and .03P to .01P in 24hrs. Would it be advisable to dose N03/P04? There has been no noticeable effects on the tank. Corals seem happy at the moment and dinos have not retreated any. Not expecting much on day 2 but figured it would be worth mentioning. I have not seen one way or the other on what levels to shoot for or if I should dose N/P during treatment. Thanks in advance -Bill

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

My tank has rapidly depleted my N03/P04 on day 2 of Elegant Corals Dino method. I went from 2.5N to 0.1N and .03P to .01P in 24hrs. Would it be advisable to dose N03/P04? There has been no noticeable effects on the tank. Corals seem happy at the moment and dinos have not retreated any. Not expecting much on day 2 but figured it would be worth mentioning. I have not seen one way or the other on what levels to shoot for or if I should dose N/P during treatment. Thanks in advance -Bill

Yes. Absolutely. If those numbers buttom out for too long, Dinos WILL follow. LPS seem to like it a little dirtier than SPS. I generally shoot for 5-10 for my LPS but generally people usually shoot a LITTLE higher.

Now as to dosing..I have a special blend of 100g Sodium Nitrate (~5 tbsp) and 5g of Trisodium Phosphate (~1tsp) to 1,500 ML of ROFI. I then dose 25 ML through out the day with my Kamoer X1. Dinos gone, corals happy!!

 

[taricha]

My tank has rapidly depleted my N03/P04 on day 2 of Elegant Corals Dino method. I went from 2.5N to 0.1N and .03P to .01P in 24hrs. Would it be advisable to dose N03/P04? There has been no noticeable effects on the tank. Corals seem happy at the moment and dinos have not retreated any.

I wouldn't necessarily add N&P. A major part of the method is to shock the system with massive carbon doses. Depletion of N or P results inevitably. Adding both N & P could have a large unpredictable effect on how the bloom progresses.

 

[Panicked Reefer]

I wouldn't necessarily add N&P. A major part of the method is to shock the system with massive carbon doses. Depletion of N or P results inevitably. Adding both N & P could have a large unpredictable effect on how the bloom progresses.

I did not think of it this way. I added a good bit of both. Should I halt process? W/C? Do you have any experience with the Elegant Coral method as far as effectiveness on Dinos? I am dealing with perocentrum dinos. I'm tired of looking at my tank and it looking like crap.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not know about the specific method you are using.

What exactly are you doing to try to treat for dinos?

 

[taricha]

I do not know about the specific method you are using.

There are some other details, but by far the biggest driver of the method (here's a thread from a couple yrs ago) is a big organic carbon infusion: over 6 days there is 19mL of vodka added per 15 gal of system volume (max of 5 ml / 15 gal in a day). There's also a 5 day total of 9 mL of Waste Away per 20 gallons (normal dose 1mL/10gal) which also contains a significant amount of digestible organic carbon.

It's more than enough organic carbon to completely deplete NO3, PO4, or both from most hobby systems. When I did it, surfaces that previously had cyano were overwhelmed by white bacterial growth. (cyano eventually slowly returned to those spots for me)

I think success that some have had in driving out nuisance growth with this is in large part because the huge Carbon input that favors heterotroph bacterial growth over the photosynthetic nuisance.
Trying to keep N and P elevated during that process would be more like pulling the opposite direction.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks.

I've not heard a whole lot of reports from folks beating dinos with organic carbon dosing.

 

[Panicked Reefer]

I'm being advised from another group to discontinue the EC method and go to dosing SI to induce a diatom bloom. I'm at a loss. I had ostreopsis a few months ago. I put a 25w UV on my system. Oddly enough the ostreopsis cleared from my system prior to getting the UV operational. Several weeks after that I had a massive cyaon outbreak. I used chemiclean. Cleared my tank perfectly. 2 weeks after that I had another dino out break. This time it is perocentrum. Of course this type is unaffected by UV. So I started the EC method. It appears that it's either loved or hated. My intention was to do the EC method to make a large impact on the perocentrum and finish it off with a diatom bloom after the tank settled from the EC method. I was hoping that it would shorten the 2-8 month dosing regiment most are reporting it takes to overcome the dinos with diatoms. In short, I am trying to get it to a point where it's not a source of frustration to look at my tank. Is there any suggestions you can offer to how I should proceed? Clearly I have made it worse by this and I believe I need to "put the shovel down" and just imbrace I'm not fixing this anytime soon.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

IMO, most methods of dealing with dinos are a way of getting something else to grow that outcompetes them for space or for a needed nutrient. I don't claim to be any expert on dinos, but that's my interpretation of all successful methods, and things that make them worse (such as water changes).

 

[Panicked Reefer]

Yes. Absolutely. If those numbers buttom out for too long, Dinos WILL follow. LPS seem to like it a little dirtier than SPS. I generally shoot for 5-10 for my LPS but generally people usually shoot a LITTLE higher.

Now as to dosing..I have a special blend of 100g Sodium Nitrate (~5 tbsp) and 5g of Trisodium Phosphate (~1tsp) to 1,500 ML of ROFI. I then dose 25 ML through out the day with my Kamoer X1. Dinos gone, corals happy!!

What is the difference in using Trisodium Phosphate vs Sodium Phosphate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What is the difference in using Trisodium Phosphate vs Sodium Phosphate?

Maybe none.

Trisodium phosphate is Na3PO4.

Sodium phosphate is a more generic description and could be several forms, with one, two, or three sodium ions in it.

For purposes of dosing phosphate, all are OK if adequately pure. the potency and alk effects are slightly different, but for phosphate we are not dosing much and always by trial and error anyway.

 

[Panicked Reefer]

Yes. Absolutely. If those numbers buttom out for too long, Dinos WILL follow. LPS seem to like it a little dirtier than SPS. I generally shoot for 5-10 for my LPS but generally people usually shoot a LITTLE higher.

Now as to dosing..I have a special blend of 100g Sodium Nitrate (~5 tbsp) and 5g of Trisodium Phosphate (~1tsp) to 1,500 ML of ROFI. I then dose 25 ML through out the day with my Kamoer X1. Dinos gone, corals happy!!

Do you mix both into 1 container or 1500ml of rodi dosing 25ml of the mix or is it 2 separate containers of 1500ml and dose 25ml of each solution?

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Do you mix both into 1 container or 1500ml of rodi dosing 25ml of the mix or is it 2 separate containers of 1500ml and dose 25ml of each solution?

I mix them in one container. I was two cheap to buy another pump. Two things to note:

1. Dosing together means you cannot tweak levels individually.
2. I literally just changed my ratios yesterday because of point 1. 6 tbsp if sodium nitrate and 1/2 tsp of trisodium phosphate.

 

[Panicked Reefer]

I have 2 free heads on my doser. I will make separately and dose individually unless you forsee an issue. I have a 75G dt with sump, total water volume is about 90g. Where would you start?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have 2 free heads on my doser. I will make separately and dose individually unless you forsee an issue. I have a 75G dt with sump, total water volume is about 90g. Where would you start?

I would dose 2 ppm nitrate and 002 ppm phosphate per day as a start in most any tank with undetectable nutrients.