Nano Macroalgea Tank

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

On the alkalinity front, Ken Feldman found that one of the main ingredients in skimmate is calcium carbonate, which may (or may not) be evidence of calcifying plantkon being skimmed out:

Elemental Analysis of Skimmate: What Does a Protein Skimmer Actually Remove from Aquarium Water?

Department of Chemistry, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802. The chemical/elemental composition of skimmate generated by an H&S 200-1260 skimmer on a 175-gallon reef tank over the course of several days or a week had some surprises.

reefs.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

They probably are consuming but if you look at my tank, but I dont have many of those: few small tube worms, amphipods, not much coraline action and very small soft coral. While the drop is happening at ~1 dKH/day

I'm not claiming what is consuming, but I see lots of possibilities that cannot be ruled out before invoking that macroalgae must do it through an unknown process.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How do you supply N and P to this tank? Those additions can impact alkalinity up or down.

There's only one very small hitchhiked snail, too small to even identify. All the cleaning is done by thousands of copepods and some amphipods. From what I'm seeing they weren't cleaning enough before because I had the tank setup with 12 hours of light and they couldn't keep up with the hair algea growth but now each day I can see them cleaning everything.
When I took these pics with the macro lens I got to see them in action and it took me by surprise how many they are and how active they were

Interesting. They may be an alkalinity consumer:

REVIEW OF THE REPRODUCTIVE BIOLOGY OF AMPHIPODS AND THEIR
ENDOCRINE REGULATION: IDENTIFICATION OF MECHANISTIC
PATHWAYS FOR REPRODUCTIVE TOXICANTS

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setac.onlinelibrary.wiley.com

from it:

"Consolidation continues during the first stage of this period by the secretion and calcification of the last postexuvial layers, with calcium carbonate making up to 40% of the crustacean cuticle. "

 

[Andy Macro]

On the alkalinity front, Ken Feldman found that one of the main ingredients in skimmate is calcium carbonate, which may (or may not) be evidence of calcifying plantkon being skimmed out:

Elemental Analysis of Skimmate: What Does a Protein Skimmer Actually Remove from Aquarium Water?

Department of Chemistry, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802. The chemical/elemental composition of skimmate generated by an H&S 200-1260 skimmer on a 175-gallon reef tank over the course of several days or a week had some surprises.

reefs.com

Interesting, I don't get much removed from the skimmer and I turned it off since Friday to see if I get some phytoplankton growth for the 2 corals, fingers crossed.

 

[Andy Macro]

I'm not claiming what is consuming, but I see lots of possibilities that cannot be ruled out before invoking that macroalgae must do it through an unknown process.

Check out this article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5983714/

From the experience of other macroalgea growers, growth increased when alkalinity was replenished. I noticed it as well from the increased water changes before, since Friday I skipped the weekly water change and started supplementing bicarbonate. Will publish here if there is more growth.

How do you supply N and P to this tank? Those additions can impact alkalinity up or down.

I made a formula which Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate and Sodium Nitrate with the expected concentration of 0.07 ppm Nitrate, 0.04 ppm Ammonial and 0.009 ppm Phosphorous. (was adding it every other day but just witched to daily. (I don't have fish)

"Consolidation continues during the first stage of this period by the secretion and calcification of the last postexuvial layers, with calcium carbonate making up to 40% of the crustacean cuticle. "

Interesting, guess they will be happy with the extra Bicarbonate im adding

 

[Lasse]

I made a formula which Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate and Sodium Nitrate with the expected concentration of 0.07 ppm Nitrate, 0.04 ppm Ammonial and 0.009 ppm Phosphorous. (was adding it every other day but just witched to daily. (I don't have fish)

Even if I´m arguing for unknown processes for your alk consumption I must be fair. In your situation - lot of oxygen, lot of surfaces and adding ammonia - you can´t exclude nitrification taking place. And nitrification consume alkalinity. However - IMO - the alkalinity tap is to high and the algae will be fast consumers of ammonia - I do not think that nitrification is a major pathway for your alkalinity tap.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Andy Macro]

Heres an update of my tank. The Caulerpa is growing super fast, 3 days now with carbon and added bicarbonate has helped clean the tank and sustain growth. Today I decided to double the fertilizer.

The amphipod army is starting to mess with some of my smaller macros. I think they are hungry. Tried setting up a trap with fish food but they didn't fall, will have to fine a tastier treats.

The Gorgonia is not very happy, I though the carbon would help but it didn't. Maybe its the lower current but it didn't look happy when there was more.

 

[Andy Macro]

Nano macro update.
It's amazing how new varieties keep sprouting every week.
Had to make a little tent to keep the macros from burning from the bright light and it seems to have done the trick.
Im adding carbonate every day with more fertilizer and they seem to like it, even seen oxigen bubbles every day now

 

[LordJoshaeus]

Let's see if I correctly understand some of what is being discussed here...macroalgae convert carbonates to CO2 to use in photosynthesis, so you dose bicarbonate (I am assuming baking soda, sodium bicarbonate? Mostly because it is readily available) to replenish carbonates and ensure good macroalgae growth? If I understood this correctly, how much baking soda should one dose? Also, could I use potassium nitrate (KNO3) and monopotassium phosphate (KH2PO4) in place of the ammonium nitrate, ammonium phosphate, and sodium nitrate? I am already using those for my freshwater aquariums, and while nitrate is a little harder for macroalgae to use I imagine there would be less potential for pest algae problems if the dose was off.

 

[fishlover1478]

this is amazing

 

[Andy Macro]

Let's see if I correctly understand some of what is being discussed here...macroalgae convert carbonates to CO2 to use in photosynthesis, so you dose bicarbonate (I am assuming baking soda, sodium bicarbonate? Mostly because it is readily available) to replenish carbonates and ensure good macroalgae growth? If I understood this correctly, how much baking soda should one dose? Also, could I use potassium nitrate (KNO3) and monopotassium phosphate (KH2PO4) in place of the ammonium nitrate, ammonium phosphate, and sodium nitrate? I am already using those for my freshwater aquariums, and while nitrate is a little harder for macroalgae to use I imagine there would be less potential for pest algae problems if the dose was off.

Exactly, and ever since I started adding Sodium Bicarbonate to the aquarium the macros have started producing oxygen bubbles. Similar thing has happened to other aquariums after taking my advise. The dose i use is usually 1 dKH per day with the quantity being determined by one of the online calculators. I got to that number based on daily testing and adjusting. I guess you should do the same to see how much yours are consuming.

With fertilizers Ive been slowly increasing the dosage and as soon as my old fertilizer ran out I made a new formula which is more aggressive. It has 5 ppm of nitrate per day and very little ammonium as expected the caulerpa have lost some of the color but theres more aggressive growth from the reds. The ammonium I still use it because the calcium I have available is for plant fertilizer and has ammonium. The other salts include pottasium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, and pottasium phosphate. I thin that whatever inbalance that might happen will be corrected with the water changes.

Some have suggested that I use Iodine to prevent yellow tip on my reds but that seemed to have gone away with the higher fertilizer. I do notice though that the only one who has not liked all of this is the Sargassum. It was growing better under the lower nutrition and higher lights.

The new formula im using is attached.

 

[LordJoshaeus]

Cool! So, for a 10 gallon macro tank, would this work well?
-.9 ml baking soda a day
-.6 ml KNO3/week (adds 13.21 ppm NO3 and 8.34 ppm Potassium)
-.15ml KH2PO4/week (adds 3.1 ppm PO4 and 1 ppm potassium)
-1.25 ml epsom salts/week (adds 3.32 ppm magnesium)
-.3 ml Plantex CSM+B/week (adds micronutrients as follows);

Fe	0.445
Mn	0.127
Cu	0.006
Mg	0.095
Zn	0.025
Mo	0.003
B	0.055

The weekly values would be dosed over the course of the week, not all at once

 

[Andy Macro]

Cool! So, for a 10 gallon macro tank, would this work well?
-.9 ml baking soda a day
-.6 ml KNO3/week (adds 13.21 ppm NO3 and 8.34 ppm Potassium)
-.15ml KH2PO4/week (adds 3.1 ppm PO4 and 1 ppm potassium)
-1.25 ml epsom salts/week (adds 3.32 ppm magnesium)
-.3 ml Plantex CSM+B/week (adds micronutrients as follows);

Fe	0.445
Mn	0.127
Cu	0.006
Mg	0.095
Zn	0.025
Mo	0.003
B	0.055

The weekly values would be dosed over the course of the week, not all at once

Looks good to me for a medium to low density. Id watch out for the caulerpa. It could munch all of that in a couple of days

 

[LordJoshaeus]

Looks good to me for a medium to low density. Id watch out for the caulerpa. It could munch all of that in a couple of days

So double that if Caulerpa is involved? Also, would the macroalgae benefit from having a small amount of CO2 dosed to the aquarium? (I am already doing that with freshwater planted tanks...I imagine I would not want to add more than a few ppm CO2 unless I want to cause PH problems).

 

[Andy Macro]

So double that if Caulerpa is involved? Also, would the macroalgae benefit from having a small amount of CO2 dosed to the aquarium? (I am already doing that with freshwater planted tanks...I imagine I would not want to add more than a few ppm CO2 unless I want to cause PH problems).

Yes about the caulerpa.

They should benefit from the CO2 but the problem is that the pH will swing really fast, specially in a nano tank. You would need some sort of pH sensor to switch off the CO2 valve when the pH gets to 8. There are some threads here that talk about that. I will be looking to do that when I upgrade to a bigger tank, probably 200 Gallons...

 

[LordJoshaeus]

Yes about the caulerpa.

They should benefit from the CO2 but the problem is that the pH will swing really fast, specially in a nano tank. You would need some sort of pH sensor to switch off the CO2 valve when the pH gets to 8. There are some threads here that talk about that. I will be looking to do that when I upgrade to a bigger tank, probably 200 Gallons...

I use yeast reactors on my freshwater aquariums...I just leave them on constantly without incident, which would likely solve the stability issues. A yeast reactor with .775 ml of instant yeast is sufficient to push CO2 levels in my 5 gallon 'high tech' planted tanks well above 30 ppm, so the amount of yeast I would be using in the reactor would be pitifully low. As I have had consistently bad luck with ceramic diffusers, I have resorted to simply inserting the end of the CO2 tubing into the bottom of the internal power filters in these tanks, which has worked wonders. I place some pillow stuffing into the bubble counters to catch any debris from the reactor.

EDIT: I am restarting my current yeast reactors once a week for the sake of stability...I may be able to get away with less often with such a small amount of yeast in the reactor.

EDIT no. 2: Forgive me for asking so many questions! Would a roughly 30% weekly water change schedule work for a macroalgae tank? More specifically I was going to do 12 liter water changes on a 10 gallon...liters make a mighty lot more sense to me.

 

[Andy Macro]

I use yeast reactors on my freshwater aquariums...I just leave them on constantly without incident, which would likely solve the stability issues. A yeast reactor with .775 ml of instant yeast is sufficient to push CO2 levels in my 5 gallon 'high tech' planted tanks well above 30 ppm, so the amount of yeast I would be using in the reactor would be pitifully low. As I have had consistently bad luck with ceramic diffusers, I have resorted to simply inserting the end of the CO2 tubing into the bottom of the internal power filters in these tanks, which has worked wonders. I place some pillow stuffing into the bubble counters to catch any debris from the reactor.

EDIT: I am restarting my current yeast reactors once a week for the sake of stability...I may be able to get away with less often with such a small amount of yeast in the reactor.

EDIT no. 2: Forgive me for asking so many questions! Would a roughly 30% weekly water change schedule work for a macroalgae tank? More specifically I was going to do 12 liter water changes on a 10 gallon...liters make a mighty lot more sense to me.

There are some diffusers that work great with yeast reactors, but I think that in freshwater its much easier to just use a tank. Mine costs 20$ the refill and lasts half a year.

I went from weekly water changes to every other week but ampropably going to change back, the hair algea is a bit out of control. Specially since now I added a fish and he is eating all the pods, who were cleaning the tank.

 

[Andy Macro]

Just added Mollies to my tank. I never would have though that mollies would be the ideal fish for a saltwater tank but it turns out they are perfect because:

1. They eat hair algea
2. They don't eat macroalgea or coral
3. They are very hardy and withstand fluctuations
4. They are super cheap, at 1.50$ a fish.
5. The colors don't collide with my tank
6. They don't jump out of nanos that Often

 

[LordJoshaeus]

Cool! Didn't realize they would not eat macroalgae...

 

[Andy Macro]

Latest pics of my Macroalgae nano tank