Need Advice... Lost SPS over the past couple months... Frustrated

KrisReef

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You moved that branching coral from below center left to mid center between the pictures that are one week apart. (It appears to be a bird nest, or branching monti, or?) Whatever, without PAR measurements everyone (including me) can only guess if the lighted portion in the center of the tank (directly beneath the bb) has:
A. Too much PAR, or
B. Too little PAR, or
C. Just the right PAR at the top of the rocks, or
D. Just the right PAR at the bottom of the tank, or
E. Just the right PAR somewhere in between.
F None of the above (wrong spectral output to grow SPS).

So given that your parameters are ok (ignoring the original high kH) and assuming that there is daily stability in the parameters tested based upon tests made once in a while, I think your system needs more attention than you have been giving it if you want to have SPS. With 80 hours/ work week I can understand how this might not be able to happen, but perhaps for now you should be content with a few softies until your situation allows you to:

Test your kH , Nitrates, Phosphates daily, and CA, MG, weekly to figure out if you really do have stability in the important areas. (If I missed something to test, someone chime in?)

The PAR seems to be working for the softies, but either buy or rent a meter or get a light (or lights) that will cover the whole area in the tank. Perhaps you can acquire a reef light that has a published spectral performance that can give you more assurance than the black box can as far as expected PAR output? Shooting in the dark is a guessing game and with more than 5 possible correct answers the odds of guessing correctly do not favor your success. Get a new light. Research, ask people what they have that works to grow sps over similar foot print and copy them. I don't like bb because they have dial-a-spectrum output and this is not conducive to stability.

Digression: When a coral settles out from the plankton it attaches to the coral bedrock and starts to grow in place. It does not move around the reef until it finds the right spectrum but it grows in place according to the light regime available at that spot. It will spread out its base to gather light where ever it can. The growth of the coral reflects the conditions of the area of settlement. (Its more complicated than I've let on, but this is good enough for what I'm trying to explain here.) If the light isn't good (too much, too little, etc), it will try and adapt to the location by adjusting it's growth to survive at that location. Either it can, or it dies trying.

When you move coral around trying to find the sweet spot you are fighting the coral's nature described in my digression . That process is very hard on the coral. Glue it down in one spot and let it adapt to those conditions would be a much better transplant strategy imo.

And did you add a red Goniopora in the second photo? Those are very nice corals! I hope that it thrives.

Move those powerheads towards the top of the tank so that it will disrupt the water surface to increase oxygen and to avoid blasting the rocks where the coral are. direct flow from a powerhead like that can kill an sps quickly, but they will thrive in turbulent waters with more random flows. Before you do a water change, you might "sweep" the rocks with the powerhead to dislodge detritus that may settle there to reduce the nutrient build up in the system.

Hand destroy the vermitids. I use a putty knife to scrape them off the tank, and a screw drive to stab them on the rocks (be careful when you do this to avoid cave ins!) If you have a lot of these you may be feeding your fish too much?

Thanks for working so many hours each week. If you have extra time you might want to consider implementing some of my suggestions. These are not criticisms of your tank, but suggested improvements you might make to improve your chances of keeping delicate sps corals. I hope this helps. :)
 

Scdell

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You moved that branching coral from below center left to mid center between the pictures that are one week apart. (It appears to be a bird nest, or branching monti, or?) Whatever, without PAR measurements everyone (including me) can only guess if the lighted portion in the center of the tank (directly beneath the bb) has:
A. Too much PAR, or
B. Too little PAR, or
C. Just the right PAR at the top of the rocks, or
D. Just the right PAR at the bottom of the tank, or
E. Just the right PAR somewhere in between.
F None of the above (wrong spectral output to grow SPS).

So given that your parameters are ok (ignoring the original high kH) and assuming that there is daily stability in the parameters tested based upon tests made once in a while, I think your system needs more attention than you have been giving it if you want to have SPS. With 80 hours/ work week I can understand how this might not be able to happen, but perhaps for now you should be content with a few softies until your situation allows you to:

Test your kH , Nitrates, Phosphates daily, and CA, MG, weekly to figure out if you really do have stability in the important areas. (If I missed something to test, someone chime in?)

The PAR seems to be working for the softies, but either buy or rent a meter or get a light (or lights) that will cover the whole area in the tank. Perhaps you can acquire a reef light that has a published spectral performance that can give you more assurance than the black box can as far as expected PAR output? Shooting in the dark is a guessing game and with more than 5 possible correct answers the odds of guessing correctly do not favor your success. Get a new light. Research, ask people what they have that works to grow sps over similar foot print and copy them. I don't like bb because they have dial-a-spectrum output and this is not conducive to stability.

Digression: When a coral settles out from the plankton it attaches to the coral bedrock and starts to grow in place. It does not move around the reef until it finds the right spectrum but it grows in place according to the light regime available at that spot. It will spread out its base to gather light where ever it can. The growth of the coral reflects the conditions of the area of settlement. (Its more complicated than I've let on, but this is good enough for what I'm trying to explain here.) If the light isn't good (too much, too little, etc), it will try and adapt to the location by adjusting it's growth to survive at that location. Either it can, or it dies trying.

When you move coral around trying to find the sweet spot you are fighting the coral's nature described in my digression . That process is very hard on the coral. Glue it down in one spot and let it adapt to those conditions would be a much better transplant strategy imo.

And did you add a red Goniopora in the second photo? Those are very nice corals! I hope that it thrives.

Move those powerheads towards the top of the tank so that it will disrupt the water surface to increase oxygen and to avoid blasting the rocks where the coral are. direct flow from a powerhead like that can kill an sps quickly, but they will thrive in turbulent waters with more random flows. Before you do a water change, you might "sweep" the rocks with the powerhead to dislodge detritus that may settle there to reduce the nutrient build up in the system.

Hand destroy the vermitids. I use a putty knife to scrape them off the tank, and a screw drive to stab them on the rocks (be careful when you do this to avoid cave ins!) If you have a lot of these you may be feeding your fish too much?

Thanks for working so many hours each week. If you have extra time you might want to consider implementing some of my suggestions. These are not criticisms of your tank, but suggested improvements you might make to improve your chances of keeping delicate sps corals. I hope this helps. :)
Excellent! Hit the nail on the head!
 

Flippers4pups

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"Get a new light. Research, ask people what they have that works to grow sps over similar foot print and copy them. I don't like bb because they have dial-a-spectrum output and this is not conducive to stability."

I would have to respectfully disagree with you on this. There is countless users of basic black boxes that are highly successful growing SPS corals. I'm one.

DSC_0134.JPG
 

KrisReef

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I may not have been clear regarding black boxes, your tank looks great under them. I was saying that without knowing the PAR output and constantly changing the settings or moving frags around to find the sweet spot is not likely to work. I cannot tell from the photo if that light is tossing out 100 or 700 PAR, and for the price of a PAR meter, it might make more sense (for the OP) to upgrade lighting for the whole tank with a light that provides a known spectral output? I can't answer that question, but I did offer that advice, or I attempted to. Again, I probably was not too clear, but I hope the OP can apply my dim thoughts to their tank for improvements. :) Sorry for all my garbled thinking,
 

rock_lobster

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Maybe so, but that's not really an sps dominated tank. Monti's yes. They can handle less light.
black box put out a ton of light they are 165w if anything they will bleach/kill anything unless they are dimmed. the Better options would be to borrow a par meter.
 

Scdell

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There more where that came from!
I watched the video. Did you? He customizes his lights. Changes the LEDs. Didn't have to get to far into it to figure that out. I'll stick to what's proven. Nuff said. I'm not getting into a war here.im done before the Mods get involved.
 
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Flippers4pups

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I watched the video. Did you? He customizes his lights. Changes the LEDs. Didn't have to get to far into it to figure that out. I'll stick to what's proven. Nuff said. I'm not getting into a war here.im done before the Mods get involved.

We can agree to disagree, respectfully.
 

marvelousone

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Alk needs to be stable. For my tank I could not get my corals to grow unless the alk is at 8.0 to 9.0. I dose to keep it stable. What I have learned from my struggles is higher nitrates alk can be on the higher side. For me nitrates are 20ppm alk closer to 9. Nitrates down at 5ppm alk is at 8.0 .Another thing you do not want po4 at zero. As far as lighting I am no pro but I has used all types of lighting. Black boxes can be used. I have one on a 29show tank now. There is no SPS in the tank now but there has been. I have it turned all the way up on both(white and Blue) 8 inches off water and it did bleach anything. They are 165 watt. My best lighting was a 400watt metal hylide 12inches above a 40breeder. The purple digitate in my avatar is that tank with 400w mh. I also have t5's on a 180. Out of all of that light is important. I think levels play a big role. You said your coral have some stn, rtn, brown. Look into your levels all of them. That is my 2 cents. I am no pro and have lost a lot of sps. This is what I have learned for myself.
 
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OrthoVet05

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Alk needs to be stable. For my tank I could not get my corals to grow unless the alk is at 8.0 to 9.0. I dose to keep it stable. What I have learned from my struggles is higher nitrates alk can be on the higher side. For me nitrates are 20ppm alk closer to 9. Nitrates down at 5ppm alk is at 8.0 .Another thing you do not want po4 at zero. As far as lighting I am no pro but I has used all types of lighting. Black boxes can be used. I have one on a 29show tank now. There is no SPS in the tank now but there has been. I have it turned all the way up on both(white and Blue) 8 inches off water and it did bleach anything. They are 165 watt. My best lighting was a 400watt metal hylide 12inches above a 40breeder. The purple digitate in my avatar is that tank with 400w mh. I also have t5's on a 180. Out of all of that light is important. I think levels play a big role. You said your coral have some stn, rtn, brown. Look into your levels all of them. That is my 2 cents. I am no pro and have lost a lot of sps. This is what I have learned for myself.

I was dosing Randy’s two part to keep it pretty tight range. Thanks for your response. That is where I am conflicted. Sounds like I need to measure this box.
 
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OrthoVet05

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An update for this episode... I got a salifert mg test and it is registering around 1580 which is a bit high. I have seen mixed opinions where this could have no consequences to this could cause STN and bleaching. I am going to let it drop on its own to the 1300-1500 range.

Going to rent a par meter from somwhere still. Thanks again for everyone's help.
 

Scdell

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A lot of people run high magnesium. They swear on it. Saw your post on trying to find new lights. Quit chasing things around. Your looking for new lights, your looking to get a par meter. Your chasing around magnesium. You'll never get a handle on things until you take one step at a time. It's called learning.
 
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A lot of people run high magnesium. They swear on it. Saw your post on trying to find new lights. Quit chasing things around. Your looking for new lights, your looking to get a par meter. Your chasing around magnesium. You'll never get a handle on things until you take one step at a time. It's called learning.

Hey thanks for your insight... I am taking one step at a time, just wanted to get opinions about lighting. Plan is to rent a par meter and most likely buy another BB for fuller coverage, depending on PAR readings.
 
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OrthoVet05

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A lot of people run high magnesium. They swear on it. Saw your post on trying to find new lights. Quit chasing things around. Your looking for new lights, your looking to get a par meter. Your chasing around magnesium. You'll never get a handle on things until you take one step at a time. It's called learning.

Not really much of a chaser anyways.
 

Form or function: Do you consider your rock work to be art or the platform for your coral?

  • Primarily art focused.

    Votes: 20 7.8%
  • Primarily a platform for coral.

    Votes: 45 17.4%
  • A bit of each - both art and a platform.

    Votes: 175 67.8%
  • Neither.

    Votes: 12 4.7%
  • Other.

    Votes: 6 2.3%
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