Need Advise For Nitrate Phosphate Balance

[rishma]

The benefits of running your skimmer part time while carbon dosing is the increased bacteria eates the nutrients locking them up, then your coral eat the bacteria filled with the nutrients. You will see increased growth and better colors. I adjust my skimmer so it is still running but not producing skim at night. That way you still get the oxygenation effect. I believe our equipment has gotten to good and strip too much out of our systems. This is food for our coral. If you have to low of phosphate then the cure is pulling back so that it will increase in our tanks.

Just my 2 pennies

I really think this ATS and fuge are the dominant reason his phosphate is low. Skimmer isn’t helping, but I expect the rapid algae growth is the bigger impact

 

[rishma]

If you reduce lighting time/intensity of fuge and ATS you should reduce your phosphate uptake. It’s a tunable filter. If you are going to make changes, make only one change at a time, and that is where I would start because it simple, predictable and reversible.

It’s hard for me to understand the nitrate challenge because there are so many variables in your tank. I have gone the opposite direction in recent years, reducing the ways I export nutrients because I find tuning a system with fewer variables is easier. I felt like different nutrient removal systems were fighting each other, not complementing each other.

I don’t feel strongly that any of the methods are inherently better than others, they all have trade offs.

good luck

 

[mike.metzger6]

But nitrates would increase too, and that's what he wants to reduce.

Correct. Looking to reduce nitrates and have the correct balance of nitrate and phosphate but currently just depleting phosphate with no lowering of nitrate

 

[mike.metzger6]

He wants to increase phosphate. His nitrates stay at 25-30 pretty steady which is fine. He was thinking he needed to lower nitrates which he doesn't.

I am trying to lower nitrates. I know they can be kept in the range that I am in but I want to see how the tank reacts if I get them in the 10-15 range as far as coloring growth etc

 

[mike.metzger6]

I really think this ATS and fuge are the dominant reason his phosphate is low. Skimmer isn’t helping, but I expect the rapid algae growth is the bigger impact

Algae in the tank is very minimal if any. Just a little light cyano here and there on sandbed which I believe is just a flow issue which I’ve been tweaking also. Algae is maintained in the scrubber

 

[mike.metzger6]

If you reduce lighting time/intensity of fuge and ATS you should reduce your phosphate uptake. It’s a tunable filter. If you are going to make changes, make only one change at a time, and that is where I would start because it simple, predictable and reversible.

It’s hard for me to understand the nitrate challenge because there are so many variables in your tank. I have gone the opposite direction in recent years, reducing the ways I export nutrients because I find tuning a system with fewer variables is easier. I felt like different nutrient removal systems were fighting each other, not complementing each other.

I don’t feel strongly that any of the methods are inherently better than others, they all have trade offs.

good luck

I agree. Looking for the most simple way to get nitrates where I want them. However I feel now like you said they are competing with each other.

 

[rishma]

Algae in the tank is very minimal if any. Just a little light cyano here and there on sandbed which I believe is just a flow issue which I’ve been tweaking also. Algae is maintained in the scrubber

I wasn’t referring to algae in tank. Rapid algae growth… in ATS/ fuge.

 

[Dan_P]

I was under the impression that the white film was a sign to back off of the NoPox. The fuge has a kessil H160 light on it. The 5 gallon bucket is on its side with the whole section cut out and holes drilled in the lod
And base for water flow and has an extra return bleed line from my pump flowing water thru it also. The cheato and lettuce seemed to grow fairly quick. The lettuce I feed the fish the cheato I pull out a large clump every week.

An additional point.

Both methods work when scaled appropriately. A five gallon bucket of algae is too small for the amount of water that needs processing. The carbon dosing was backed off too much.

 

[Peair]

I also forgot to mention that I’ve been using a scoop of reef Roids once a day with my feeding since everybody reports it’s a phosphate bomb

I know Reef Roids make Nitrates go up especially if you are feeding it every day, I would cut back or switch to something that doesn’t produce nutrients so much like Benepets..

k

 

[rc8t6353]

My personal opinion and experience is that your nitrates won't budge because your phosphates are too low. My tank had the same issue. High nitrates and zero phosphates, no matter how many water changes I did. I started dosing a small amount of Neophos daily until I could get and keep a consistent reading. After doing that, water changes brought nitrates to were I wanted them. The key is to go slow with dosing phosphate. IMHO lol

 

[mike.metzger6]

My personal opinion and experience is that your nitrates won't budge because your phosphates are too low. My tank had the same issue. High nitrates and zero phosphates, no matter how many water changes I did. I started dosing a small amount of Neophos daily until I could get and keep a consistent reading. After doing that, water changes brought nitrates to were I wanted them. The key is to go slow with dosing phosphate. IMHO lol

I’m already dosing phosphate at 30ML a day but still having trouble keeping phosphate up. My thoughts are that all the phosphate is being consumed by the fuge and scrubber but it’s not having an effect on lowering nitrates.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’m already dosing phosphate at 30ML a day but still having trouble keeping phosphate up. My thoughts are that all the phosphate is being consumed by the fuge and scrubber but it’s not having an effect on lowering nitrates.

No, that cannot happen if the phosphate dose is significant. I’m not sure what amount of phosphate that translates to, but algae will take up at least ten times as much nitrate as phosphate.

Phosphate binding to rock and sand can take it up without any nitrate uptake. You need to add enough to overcome that effect.

 

[mike.metzger6]

No, that cannot happen if the phosphate dose is significant. I’m not sure what amount of phosphate that translates to, but algae will take up at least ten times as much nitrate as phosphate.

Phosphate binding to rock and sand can take it up without any nitrate uptake. You need to add enough to overcome that effect.

Ok so your advise would be to leave fuge and algae scrubber running and bump up phosphate dose maybe by 10ML every few days until I see nitrate hopefully drop and phosphate level stabilize ??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok so your advise would be to leave fuge and algae scrubber running and bump up phosphate dose maybe by 10ML every few days until I see nitrate hopefully drop and phosphate level stabilize ??

Bump the phosphate dose until it reaches your target, then you may or may not need continued daily doses. What happens to nitrate, if anything, will have to be seen.

 

[rishma]

Bump the phosphate dose until it reaches your target, then you may or may not need continued daily doses. What happens to nitrate, if anything, will have to be seen.

I’ll take the road less traveled and disagree with Randy on this one. Between carbon dosing, skimmer, ATS, fuge, binding to carbonate surfaces, etc it’s hard to guess where the phosphate is being consumed. Adding more phosphate is certainly an option, but I think exporting/consuming less is too.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’ll take the road less traveled and disagree with Randy on this one. Between carbon dosing, skimmer, ATS, fuge, binding to carbonate surfaces, etc it’s hard to guess where the phosphate is being consumed. Adding more phosphate is certainly an option, but I think exporting/consuming less is too.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing, but what does that mean the op should do to raise it and lower nitrate?

 

[rishma]

Nothing wrong with disagreeing, but what does that mean the op should do to raise it and lower nitrate?

I agree that dosing phosphate in a phosphate limited system is a good strategy to try and lower nitrate. It works.

In the OPs case, I think the system is very complex. He has added method after method in an attempt the lower nitrate. The current combination of methods has resulted in stripping phosphate too low, without lowering nitrates. It seems he was not phosphate limited before the fuge/ATS.

I’ve been running the scrubber and fuge opposite of the tank lights. That’s been going for about 2 months and still no reduction in nitrates. However major effect on phos which I expected. I’m now dosing Neophos at 30ml a day to try and keep the phos from bottoming out but since the scrubber is established and fuge is growing wildly all phos is being immediately consumed while nitrate is remaining the same.

So my opinion is that he can solve 1 problem (phosphate too low) but reducing consumption/export. Then focus on the more persistent issue of high nitrates.

Given the stubbornness of the high nitrates, it could be due to the accumulation of waste, possibly in a sand bed. That’s my guess anyway. The OP isn’t doing water changes.

Edit: my recommendation is lower photoperiod of fuge/ats, allow phosphate to increase, and water change/clean sand to see if nitrate improves.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Edit: my recommendation is lower photoperiod of fuge/ats, allow phosphate to increase, and water change/clean sand to see if nitrate improves.

That’s a fine plan as well. :)

 

[rishma]

That’s a fine plan as well. :)

I bet he follows yours!

 

[rc8t6353]

I’m already dosing phosphate at 30ML a day but still having trouble keeping phosphate up. My thoughts are that all the phosphate is being consumed by the fuge and scrubber but it’s not having an effect on lowering nitrates.

I know it may not feel right to do, but you need to dose more if you can't get and maintain a reading.