need expert advise with hippo, new photos added

[coralbeauties]

Almost two months ago a buddy and I bought 3 hippos from a wholesaler. They did good for about the first three weeks while being in hypo. Then my buddy started seeing issues with them. He thought they were parasites and tried a bunch of different treatments but he doesn’t feel any of it is working. I brought mine home today snd got some decent closeups of the fish. He has tried general cure, formalin, prazi, paraguard bendazole, spectrum hex shield. They were currently in a copper treatment which he felt wasn’t working either. Take a look at the pics and tell me what you think
Thanks
Jeff

 

[vetteguy53081]

Appears to be flukes.
If you can, well must catch this fish and place it in a clean and preferably dark bucket and give it a freshwater bath *same temperature as tank) for about 5 minutes and then return to display tank. Look on bottom of bucket and see if you see what looks like sesame seeds. If so, look and fish and see if they are gone which will confirm Flukes.

 

[coralbeauties]

I dipped the fish tonight before I put it in my qt tank and nothing came off the fish. Not positive but dont think it is flukes.
Jeff

 

[coralbeauties]

Any other ideas anyone? The places around its head almost look like tiny holes or divots in the flesh. Not sure about the other spots. They were still there after the freshwater dip. For the time being he seems good, still eating. Guess that is a good sign. Sure is a shy fish though.
Thanks
Jeff

 

[Bbfishb81]

To me it looks like hlle (head and lateral erosion). Which is from malnutrition. Try varying the types of seaweed you're feeding. And add some vitamins to the meat or pellets you are feeding. That might help. Downside is that if it gets too bad, the fish will be scarred.

 

[anth]

The holes in the face are pretty comon with hippos especialy with age and from my experience they tend to get worse with stress of quarantine and medication such as copper. As for the spots on the body, if treatment hasnt made a difference i would bring water up to normal salinity and give them as little stress as possible. As long as they are eating i would bet they will get better on there own.

 

[coralbeauties]

I just removed my other pictures and added the new ones above. I currently have him at 1.019 salinity and no medication at all other then putting some general cure in the food with garlic and selcon. He eats good and is very active. I'll start to raise the salinity to normal levels and feed nori and the medicated mysis,krill mix. Open to all ideas and suggestions
thanks
Jeff

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I see some minor HLLE around the head (avoid using soft carbon!). The spots on the body could be a number of things - what you are seeing is granulation tissue around some irritant. The FW dip came up negative for flukes (but it easy to miss some species without a microscope). There are also encysted flukes, as well as turbellarian worms that will not come off in a FW dip. I would use General Cure in the water to treat those. GC in the food is a difficult thing to do properly. Check out my medicated food article: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/proper-dosing-of-medicated-foods.780/


Jay

 

[coralbeauties]

I see some minor HLLE around the head (avoid using soft carbon!). The spots on the body could be a number of things - what you are seeing is granulation tissue around some irritant. The FW dip came up negative for flukes (but it easy to miss some species without a microscope). There are also encysted flukes, as well as turbellarian worms that will not come off in a FW dip. I would use General Cure in the water to treat those. GC in the food is a difficult thing to do properly. Check out my medicated food article: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/proper-dosing-of-medicated-foods.780/


Jay

My buddy that has been keeping the three hippos said he did 4 rounds of general cure. He currently has his two in copper which he says isn’t working either (even mentioned that one of them is lunging at food like it’s eyesight is being effected). Within the last year he lost a gem and a small group of yellows to what he feels is same thing and feels they are getting it from the wholesalers system. I guess I will continue with the general cure unless you have another recommendation .
Thank you
Jeff

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My buddy that has been keeping the three hippos said he did 4 rounds of general cure. He currently has his two in copper which he says isn’t working either (even mentioned that one of them is lunging at food like it’s eyesight is being effected). Within the last year he lost a gem and a small group of yellows to what he feels is same thing and feels they are getting it from the wholesalers system. I guess I will continue with the general cure unless you have another recommendation .
Thank you
Jeff

If the fish have already been dosed with GC 4x and no improvement, I would say a fifth and sixth treatment isn't going to work, so you need to go in a different direction then. Trouble is, the next option would be a 150 ppm formalin dip for 45 minutes, and formalin is difficult to come by. The third option would be to go to true hyposalinity, a specific gravity of 1.010....but I'm not confident that will help.

The HLLE needs to be managed through not using carbon and good diet and water conditions. It is those other spots that concern me. One thought though as I said at first, these look like granulomatous material, and that is something that animals produce during the healing process, or when trying to wall off an infection. These could be perhaps just scars and not active infections.

Jay

 

[coralbeauties]

If the fish have already been dosed with GC 4x and no improvement, I would say a fifth and sixth treatment isn't going to work, so you need to go in a different direction then. Trouble is, the next option would be a 150 ppm formalin dip for 45 minutes, and formalin is difficult to come by. The third option would be to go to true hyposalinity, a specific gravity of 1.010....but I'm not confident that will help.

The HLLE needs to be managed through not using carbon and good diet and water conditions. It is those other spots that concern me. One thought though as I said at first, these look like granulomatous material, and that is something that animals produce during the healing process, or when trying to wall off an infection. These could be perhaps just scars and not active infections.

Jay

Thank you so much for the advise. I do know that he did have the formalin dip for an hour, as for the very first part of his treatment was a month of hypo. Hoping you are right about the healing and possible scars. Some of the areas around its head do look like small holes from maybe where a parasite or pod might have been embedded in its skin. I also thought about moving my cleaner wrasse from my display tank into the qt with it if that might be of some good,
Jeff

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I wouldn’t move the cleaner wrasse- if these are just scars, the wrasse will harass the fish.
Jay

 

[coralbeauties]

The HLLE needs to be managed through not using carbon and good diet and water conditions. It is those other spots that concern me. One thought though as I said at first, these look like granulomatous material, and that is something that animals produce during the healing process, or when trying to wall off an infection. These could be perhaps just scars and not active infections.

Jay

Just wondering what hlle looks like when it first starts out? I have had 2 tangs in with this hippo and I caught them tonight to inspect them and found a few brown spots around their eyes and if I lightly picked at the spots they are indented like a hole. I wanted to add them to the main tank today until I found the spots. If it is the start of hlle I need to get them into the good tank conditions of the main display.
I did find a white spot on the head of the hippo that I was able to scrape off and it seemed to just turn to somewhat mush as it scraped off. Not sure the deal with that. fish is eating and acting great.
thanks
Jeff

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just wondering what hlle looks like when it first starts out? I have had 2 tangs in with this hippo and I caught them tonight to inspect them and found a few brown spots around their eyes and if I lightly picked at the spots they are indented like a hole. I wanted to add them to the main tank today until I found the spots. If it is the start of hlle I need to get them into the good tank conditions of the main display.
I did find a white spot on the head of the hippo that I was able to scrape off and it seemed to just turn to somewhat mush as it scraped off. Not sure the deal with that. fish is eating and acting great.
thanks
Jeff

HLLE can be difficult to see when it first starts out, but the picture you posted of the blue tang on 11/24, has some probable HLLE pits just in front of the eye. They will often grow larger over time.

I can't really advise you if moving the tangs is a good idea or not: certainly getting them into a stable DT is a good thing to do. However, if they have an unfinished quarantine, you risk transferring a disease into your DT.

Jay

 

[coralbeauties]

If the fish would indeed have a parasite of some sort that is not being killed with treatments how long would the fish live? I am starting to believe the spots are like what was mentioned as scarring along with starting of hlle. The hippo has been in my qt tank for close to 3 weeks now and still has the spots be it very lively and eats like a pig. I would think it would be going down hill if there were still a problem.
thanks
Jeff

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If the fish would indeed have a parasite of some sort that is not being killed with treatments how long would the fish live? I am starting to believe the spots are like what was mentioned as scarring along with starting of hlle. The hippo has been in my qt tank for close to 3 weeks now and still has the spots be it very lively and eats like a pig. I would think it would be going down hill if there were still a problem.
thanks
Jeff

Yes, I do think they are scars, but I hesitate to suggest moving the fish out of quarantine early due to the risk of the fish in your DT. The HLLE has already started, and may well continue even after you move the fish out, so there may not be a benefit for that by moving it. In the end, you'll need to balance the risk to the fish in your DT, and that is purely a judgement call on your part.

Jay

 

[coralbeauties]

How long would you keep it in qt? It’s been through a month of hypo along with GC and several other treatments
Thanks
Jeff

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How long would you keep it in qt? It’s been through a month of hypo along with GC and several other treatments
Thanks
Jeff

Going back over the case, I can’t tell, how long was the fish in copper? Less than 2 weeks and I wouldn’t risk moving it out yet.
Jay

 

[coralbeauties]

How will healing HLLE look? This guy is developing some raised white spots around its head. Not grain shaped more like white soft tissue. Just wondering if that might be some healing going on or the fish still has something wrong other then the HLLE? Currently in normal salinity with no meds.
thanks
Jeff

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How will healing HLLE look? This guy is developing some raised white spots around its head. Not grain shaped more like white soft tissue. Just wondering if that might be some healing going on or the fish still has something wrong other then the HLLE? Currently in normal salinity with no meds.
thanks
Jeff

HLLE never looks raised to me, it is a subtractive process, where the tissue gets thinner. Healing, if it occurs, is typically around the margin of the lesions, growing inward, and they just get smaller. Can you post another picture?
Jay