Need help with setting up sump

[BadAngel14]

I am setting up this 70 gallon tank with the sump beside it. After talking with some people at my lfs they said that this set up (in the pictures) would work for drainage from the bottom tank into the sump. The problem is it's not fast at all. Barely draining water compared to how fast the return pump puts it back. Any help would be appreciated. Even if it's alternative methods of draining. For a little more context this 70 gallon sits underneath a 90 gallon and the two are connected, that's the sump has to be beside it.

 

[Fish Fan]

Did you purchase this system from your LFS?

 

[Subsea]

@BadAngel14
What is your side sump’s purpose?

You could put a platform under your side sump to raise the difference in levels which will increase your flow rate.

 

[BadAngel14]

Did you purchase this system from your LFS?

I did not. I asked them for recommendations of how to run it

 

[BadAngel14]

@BadAngel14
What is your side sump’s purpose?

You could put a platform under your side sump to raise the difference in levels which will increase your flow rate.

The side sump is for mechanical filtration. That's really all I need it for. How would that increase flow rate? I want it to go horizontal from the tank on the right to the sump, wouldn't it going uphill decrease the flow rate?

 

[Fish Fan]

I did not. I asked them for recommendations of how to run it

I'm asking because this is not in my humble estimation a typical setup, and I was hoping maybe they could help you understand the reasoning behind it.

I'm not trying to be negative, but I see only one drain line from the top tank to the sump, and most now use two or three drain lines. The bulkhead situation on the bottom tank is unusual, at least to me. And the sump looks like it's loaded with bioballls, which is a rather old school setup that not many do anymore for reef tanks.

Was this possibly a turtle tank previously? Would the previous owner be able to help you understand how it's supposed to work?

EDIT: The bioballs in your sump are intended to provide biological filtration, not mechanical. When these setups were used years ago there was a danger of the bioballs becoming a "nitrate factory", which is fine for most fish and turtles, etc., but not so great if you want to keep corals.

 

[Subsea]

Help me understand where is your return pump to display located? Your picture is not clear to me.

 

[BadAngel14]

I'm asking because this is not in my humble estimation a typical setup, and I was hoping maybe they could help you understand the reasoning behind it.

I'm not trying to be negative, but I see only one drain line from the top tank to the sump, and most now use two or three drain lines. The bulkhead situation on the bottom tank is unusual, at least to me. And the sump looks like it's loaded with bioballls, which is a rather old school setup that not many do anymore for reef tanks.

Was this possibly a turtle tank previously? Would the previous owner be able to help you understand how it's supposed to work?

EDIT: The bioballs in your sump are intended to provide biological filtration, not mechanical. When these setups were used years ago there was a danger for the bioballs becoming a "nitrate factory", which is fine for most fish and turtles, etc., but not so great if you want to keep corals.

It is not a typical setup. The 90 and the sump came from someone that gave it to me for free, and I wanted to add the 70 to have two tanks. The line that you see is a return from the sump to the 90. The 90 then drains down into the 70, which then (I wanted to at least) goes into the sump. Then it continues cycling. The main problem that I'm having is the flow rate from the 70 to the sump is not as high as I'd like it. The bio balls are old school for sure, there is filter sheets on top of the bio balls to provide mechanical filtration.

 

[BadAngel14]

Help me understand where is your return pump to display located? Your picture is not clear to me.

 

[BadAngel14]

Help me understand where is your return pump to display located? Your picture is not clear to me.

The return pump is in the sump on the left hand side

 

[Subsea]

“I want it to go horizontal from the tank on the right to the sump, wouldn't it going uphill decrease the flow rate?“

I have a pump return section in my refugium that is feed by an overflow weir. As flow rate increases the depth over the weir increases. Because your supply to sump is fixed diameter pipe you have limited options.

1. Run slower return to display on top.

2. Add a second bulkhead drain to sump.

3. Increase operating level in 70G tank to increase gravity feed to sump tank. This is a serious risk of overflowing depending on your top tank level controls when your return pump fails.

 

[Fish Fan]

I get free, free is for me :)

My concern would be that if there's only one bulkhead and drain going from each tank and then to the sump in series, there's a real chance of a flood if a snail, for example, was to plug any one of the drain lines, which happens a lot. For that reason, most tanks are now plumbed with at least two and sometimes three drain lines, where one drain will be an emergency drain, there to handle the overflow in the even one of the main lines gets plugged up.

This may be a good time to make some modifications to your system, add some redundancy to the drains, and personally I wouldn't use those bioballs. Many reefers don't use mechanical filtration at all, by the way.

I hope this helps, I'm not trying to be a downer here, just concerned about a flood and high nitrates from the bioballs :)

 

[BadAngel14]

I get free, free is for me :)

My concern would be that if there's only one bulkhead and drain going from each tank and then to the sump in series, there's a real chance of a flood if a snail, for example, was to plug any one of the drain lines, which happens a lot. For that reason, most tanks are now plumbed with at least two and sometimes three drain lines, where one drain will be an emergency drain, there to handle the overflow in the even one of the main lines gets plugged up.

This may be a good time to make some modifications to your system, add some redundancy to the drains, and personally I wouldn't use those bioballs. Many reefers don't use mechanical filtration at all, by the way.

I hope this helps, I'm not trying to be a downer here, just concerned about a flood and high nitrates from the bioballs :)

Okay thank you. I might try to quickly drill another hole. The no mechanical filtration is new to me, but I'm also fairly new to the hobby. I thought it was pretty much a must have. Would you replace bio balls with something else or take them out entirely? Flooding is something that I am concerned about. The second the pump stops it starts a siphon down so that's something I have to figure out. Thank you for your help

 

[Fish Fan]

Okay thank you. I might try to quickly drill another hole. The no mechanical filtration is new to me, but I'm also fairly new to the hobby. I thought it was pretty much a must have. Would you replace bio balls with something else or take them out entirely? Flooding is something that I am concerned about. The second the pump stops it starts a siphon down so that's something I have to figure out. Thank you for your help

The flooding when the pumps stop is what @Subsea was talking about previously. You need to make sure that if/when the pumps stop - like during a power outage, which will always happen when you're not home - that the water that drains back doesn't overflow the sump. I would seek Subsea's advice here, he's a well respected reefer and an engineer by trade.

You can install a check valve on your lines, which prevents water from draining backwards. However, many people hate check valves either because they've failed and caused a whole other problem, or because they need to be cleaned/maintained in order to prevent their failure.

Me personally, I would take out the bioballs. The problem with them is that even with the mechanical pads above them, they can accumulate detritus, which at some point is going to produce nitrate. Excess nitrate can fuel unwanted algae growth, but is otherwise fine for most fish and animals like turtles. If you want to keep corals, then excess nitrate can be a problem for them. Most reefers no longer use a wet/dry, trickle style filter loaded with bioballs (which is I believe what you have), we rely on the rocks and sand in the tank (plus good flow) to be the tank's main biofilter.

There is definitely a contingency of reefers here at R2R that don't use mechanical filtration, plus I know Josh from World Wide Corals does not use any mechanical filtration at all. They see the material that mechanical filtration traps as food for corals and other creatures. Many of these reefers say that there is a healthy layer of mulm and build up in their sumps, but they consider that beneficial. I know one member here that when he started a new tank, he scooped all the mulm and crud from his old sump and added it to the new sump.

That said, I'm sure the vast majority of reefers use something for mechanical filtration. My point is that there's always more than one way to go about something, I would suggest not getting too hung up on things that you "absolutely must have to be successful". A protein skimmer would be another example of this. A skimmer is a fine tool, but far from a necessity to be successful.

Sorry for the long reply! I'm sure Subsea and others will be able to help with your plumbing questions.

 

[Subsea]

Okay thank you. I might try to quickly drill another hole. The no mechanical filtration is new to me, but I'm also fairly new to the hobby. I thought it was pretty much a must have. Would you replace bio balls with something else or take them out entirely? Flooding is something that I am concerned about. The second the pump stops it starts a siphon down so that's something I have to figure out. Thank you for your help

To keep it simple, I would put return pump in 70G and plug up bulkhead to sump.

With respect to water draining from top tank, there are two sources for the drain: drain line to tank and reverse flow when pump shuts off. To prevent this back syphon drill syphon break at water line in display tank

 

[BadAngel14]

To keep it simple, I would put return pump in 70G and plug up bulkhead to sump.

With respect to water draining from top tank, there are two sources for the drain: drain line to tank and reverse flow when pump shuts off. To prevent this back syphon drill syphon break at water line in display tank

I see thank you for your advice. How should I fit the return pump in the 70 so that it does mess with the rest of the tank? Should I get acrylic sheets and build a box, or some other material that is aquarium safe? I will also ensure to put in a syphon break. Thank you for your help

 

[Subsea]

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[BadAngel14]

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[Subsea]

You are a saint. Thank you. I will find the right size and shape and order one.

Glad to help.

@BadAngel14
Do you presently have ell in the 90G tank?

Not knowing your experience level, can you explain your bio-filtration goal with the bottom tank? I assume your ell is a big messy eater.

fyi
On my 25yr mature tank, I have reef rubble instead of bioballs in my 30G cryptic refugium and they are crawling with pods. The worms are in the main section with the miracle mud & MULM.

PS: consider starting a tank journal in member tank forum.