Need to bring up Alk but not too fast ??

[cracker]

Hello,My alk is really low Ca (430) is fine. When I say low I mean 6.2 low ! So the reef chem calculator I use tells me it needs 90 mls to bring it up to 7.7 . That's quit a bit.
My question is , 45 mls for two days too much of a change ? should I stretch it out over 3 maybe?
I have more info If You want. Thank's ,Brian
ps I'm dosing by hand every day (15 mls )not sure how it got away from me.

 

[SPR1968]

Well I had a situation a few months ago, we’re i forgot to put the auto doser back into ‘auto’ so it stopped dosing for about 7 days and the alkalinity was around 5.6 but not for very long.

I just increased it back to around 8 in 1 hit with no ill effects what so ever, and I’m sure the corals prefer 8 than 5.6

I’m just saying what I did, but if you prefer just spread it over a few days and bring it back slowly as that’s generally the best advice.

 

[ScottR]

My alk is crazy high - 12.5. But I use RS coral reef pro which promises that number. The salt can make the difference sometimes.

 

[vanpire]

One is no biggie. 6.2 is a little low but not that bad. My Alk cycles from a low of 6.7 to 7.7 every day. No problem.

 

[cracker]

Thank's for the reply's . I'm most likely over reacting. just don't want to screw every thing up with one bad move !

 

[Martin Kuhn]

It is better to bring up Alk to good levels FAST, than to slow.
Don’t forget also that your tank starts consumption again once levels are good again.

1,0 .. 2,0 (or even higher) for the adaptation is fine.
More important: take care that you then measure Alk steadily each day and KEEP it stable at the level where you want it to be.

 

[cracker]

Ok Gents, I decided to play it safe I halved the 90 mls to 2 days just added 45 mls ALK , 15 mls of Ca. 2nd dose tomorrow & will test & balance out what's needed. Thank's for the insight.

 

[cracker]

Hello, So it took 3 doses of 45 mls alk to get it up to 7.8 which is right where I want it. I think it took 3 doses because the tank was consuming it over the 3 days . So now it's back to 15 mls per day. See if it stays there. This has b
een my problem for a long time, trying to keep it stable My tank wants somewhere between 12 & 15 mls. If it floats too high, I add few less mls. Then it drops too low .i increase the mls & it goes too high ! Drives me nuts ! LOL
Any way I see now it's better to dose all at once. Please wish me luck I can keep it between 7.6 & 8.3 .

 

[Orm Embar]

I remember reading somewhere that a 24 hour increase of 0.5-1 dKH is safe and won't cause problems; I don't have any good evidence that faster replacement is problematic

 

[ScottR]

Hello, So it took 3 doses of 45 mls alk to get it up to 7.8 which is right where I want it. I think it took 3 doses because the tank was consuming it over the 3 days . So now it's back to 15 mls per day. See if it stays there. This has b
een my problem for a long time, trying to keep it stable My tank wants somewhere between 12 & 15 mls. If it floats too high, I add few less mls. Then it drops too low .i increase the mls & it goes too high ! Drives me nuts ! LOL
Any way I see now it's better to dose all at once. Please wish me luck I can keep it between 7.6 & 8.3 .

I’d try changing salt. I know it’s a tough move, but it can make the biggest difference.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Hello, So it took 3 doses of 45 mls alk to get it up to 7.8 which is right where I want it. I think it took 3 doses because the tank was consuming it over the 3 days . So now it's back to 15 mls per day. See if it stays there. This has b
een my problem for a long time, trying to keep it stable My tank wants somewhere between 12 & 15 mls. If it floats too high, I add few less mls. Then it drops too low .i increase the mls & it goes too high ! Drives me nuts ! LOL
Any way I see now it's better to dose all at once. Please wish me luck I can keep it between 7.6 & 8.3 .

Forgive me for a quick, Saturday morning without looking for your build thread and your tank's characteristics (size, inhabitants, etc...). One observation - a lot of respondents suggested that a quick return to "normal" levels was OK, and that's definitely correct if you've a fish-only, softie or hardy LPS tank. Those of us that keep SPS would probably not recommend doing that, though what you actually did (a roughly 1 dKH increase over 48 hours) should be OK.

On the "keeping alk stable" aspect. Besides a dosing pump, which does, of course, represent a substantial bit of $$$, there's a few different strategies to maintain alk at stable levels with manual dosing. In my case, I've never had a dosing pump on my 20 gallon nano, which has been running since 2004 with LPS/SPS. So it's definitely do-able.

1) Commit to a week of daily alk testing. You don't have to do it on this frequency once you get things dialed in, but it's necessary to nail down your consumption.
2) Log all of your measurements. I do this with a $2 old-fashioned blank journal that I picked up at Staples, but there's plenty of software solutions as well.
3) Get an accurate way to measure your solutions. If you make them yourself (I do), consider a $20 kitchen scale that has 1 gram resolution, and a container that you can precisely fill to a specified level, and that you use consistently every time you make the solutions. I use volumetric flasks, but that means another $50 or so - $30 for the magnetic stir plate and $20 for a couple of class-A volumetrics (one for alk, the other for Ca). It really doesn't matter that the solutions be made up really accurately, but it really does matter that they be made up consistently, otherwise all of the work you're doing for alk measurements won't mean much.
4) Get an accurate way to dose your solutions. There's several choices here. In my case, since I'm a scientist with access to all sorts of lab equipment, I'd use a plastic 20 mL syringe to measure ~13 mL. Failing access to a syringe, you might consider a 25mL graduated cylinder off of Amazon. Again, it really doesn't matter about accuracy here, but precision does - it needs to be repeatable every time with a high level of confidence.
5) Once you have your tools ready (repeatable mixing and measuring containers), pick an alk and Ca dose in the middle of your usual range - say, 13 mL. Dose this consistently every single day during the week that you're doing the daily alkalinity measurements without fail, and do it at the same time every day +/- 1 hour. Do your alkalinity measurement at a consistent time as well, preferably at least an hour since your 2-part dosing. Really important - do not alter the daily dose for this week, no matter what your test tells you.
6) Plot the alkalinity values on a graph - there's tons of on-line tools to do this, but I use Excel. You can also do it the old-fashioned way, with graph paper and a pencil. Either use the software to calculate a best-fit line to your data, or do it by eye on the graph paper. Measure the slope. If it's <0.05 dKH per day, that's about as good as you're going to get with hobbyist testing. If it's >0.05 dKH/day, you can make a small adjustment to your dose, and repeat the cycle. Presuming that your tank inhabitants don't change, and their growth is relatively stable, once you do this you can drop back to alkalinity tests twice per week.

Note that no hobbyist test kit has a precision of +/- 0.05 dKH, including ones that might actually read to this resolution, such as the Hanna. But that's the power of trend-line analysis; by repeating exactly the same thing (dosing and testing) every day for a week, you're averaging out the error, and getting a much more precise estimate of the consumption of the major trace elements.

 

[cracker]

Thanks Dkeller . The tank is a 75 total volume around 90 gls. Mostly LPS . Considered a dosser however the swings are so often it's easier for me to hand dose. I'm retired now & enjoy the little work needed .
One thing is just to over react if a test appears high or low. I was/am guilty of this but improving.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

I think for the most part if you track the alkalinity readings for a week, keeping the dosed amount rigidly the same at the same time of day, and the testing equally specific to a time of day, you'll find that the swings aren't actually there. Unless you've a lot of abiotic precipitation that's going on, perhaps as an artifact of dosing both Ca and Alk in the same part of the tank within a few seconds of each other, it's really not logical for the corals and/or coralline algae to be rapidly ramping up/down their growth rates that would explain big swings in consumption.

 

[ScottR]

Thanks Dkeller . The tank is a 75 total volume around 90 gls. Mostly LPS . Considered a dosser however the swings are so often it's easier for me to hand dose. I'm retired now & enjoy the little work needed .
One thing is just to over react if a test appears high or low. I was/am guilty of this but improving.

I too, am like you (but not retired). I prefer hand dosing as I think it keeps me busy but also gives me control. But my alk being too high at times, I think I overreact.

 

[cracker]

hey Scott, we are in the same boat at opposite ends ! LOL

 

[ScottR]

hey Scott, we are in the same boat at opposite ends ! LOL

No wonder our boat never moves

 

[cracker]

Ok after 5 days I just tested . Alk dropped to( 7.3 from 7.8) . I'was dosing 15 mls of Ocean's blend prts 1 & 2 . I "think" I will go to dosing 17 mls . wait 5 days & test again.
Any op's ? Thanks , Brian

 

[ScottR]

Ok after 5 days I just tested . Alk dropped to( 7.3 from 7.8) . I'was dosing 15 mls of Ocean's blend prts 1 & 2 . I "think" I will go to dosing 17 mls . wait 5 days & test again.
Any op's ? Thanks , Brian

My only advice is to note everything down in a notebook or something. There’s an app a friend of mine showed me where he can input daily readings and it automatically charts it for you. Sometimes it’s easier to see it on paper to find what worked. If you’re interested in the app, I can find it for you. I believe it’s free.

 

[Martin Kuhn]

I recommend to write down following 2 values for Ca and Alk per date
A) the measured value of your tanks water (mg/l for Ca and dkH for Alk)
B) the amount dosed in either mg/l per day Of Ca and dkH per day for Alk. This is Instead of the ml you dosed!

This helps you to....
-„ think like things are going on in your tank“.
- change to another 2/3 part recipe once you want to do that (you can immediately adapt your dosing to the same demand of Ca/Alk with another recipe/product)
- ask within the forum if your consumption per day is typical or not (just telling the ml‘s dosed requires recalculating these figures for the forum members by your water volume AND the recipe/product you are using)

 

[cracker]

Thank You Gents. I have note books where I log everything I do with both my tanks. Been doing this for years. I can go back & see trends & such . The tank in question here is my 75 reef experimental tank. I freely admit to not being able to keep any sps long term . I have terrible algae issues etc. But that's another thread. Just trying to keep parameters stable. I "think" I need to keep up on the bi weekly water changes.