New to Saltwater/Reefing with Questions

[craiginphoenix]

Over my stay at home Christmas vacation I went out on the used market and found a 36 bow front aquarium for free on OfferUp. I have had several freshwater tanks in the past so I decided to try my hand at saltwater, and in a couple months, reefing.

Checking the used markets I then bought:
- An Eheim Classic 350 canister filter
Someone was selling all their stuff so I got a package that included:
- 40 lbs of dead rock that had been dry for a couple months
- 2 Aqua Knight A029 lights
- Aqueon 950 circulation pump (gph)
- Fluval CP2 circulation pump (425 gph)
- all the supplies/testing kits/saltwater mix/heater
- a Tunze 9004 skimmer that will be here on Friday that was open box on Amazon

I went to my LPS and bought 20 lbs of live sand, 3 lbs of live rock so I could seed the dead rock, and 35 gallons of Pacific Ocean water (LPS told me that by using that water I did not need to cycle for 2 weeks), so after a couple days, went back and bought 2 clownfish and 2 hermit crabs to start cycling the tank, all of which *appear* to be doing well after about a week. I am lighting for about 7 hours a day to try to get the dead rock to seed and I already see corraline algae on parts of the dead rock.

I researched before buying but clearly not enough because i have have apparently already made several mistakes which is where my questions come in.

After more research I have realized that I should not have bought a canister filter for a saltwater system. What should I use for filtering? I have been looking at the Tunze 3162 and maybe 3168 but I am not sure if the 3168 would be overkill for the money, nor do I know if they would be any more/less effective than the canister filter. Seems like at minimum they would be easier to clean. I realize now the right answer here is a sump but I just don't have the kind of money to commit to an overflow box and everything I would need to make that work. Thoughts or suggestions? Would be 3162 fit my needs, including when I get coral? Can I make the canister filter work without killing the tank with detritus and without cleaning the entire canister weekly?

When I went online to see about circulation, I read that the Aqueon 950 would be too powerful for such a small aquarium so I am only using the CP2 425 gph. What should I get/use for circulation? I am guessing the 425 wont be enough when I get coral. Might not be enough now. Can I use the 950 in any way? I am on a budget but I obviously want to make a system that will work long term.

As I said before, I am lighting with a timer for 7 hours a day but is this correct? I really can't find clear direction online for lighting for rock only. It appears to be growing the corraline okay but I am not sure if more/less lighting would be better.

Does anyone have any suggestions on a quality and affordable ATO in the $40-$80 range? I am running lidless and doing manual top offs with my eyeball to fill to the edge of the rim but it is going to become too much for me soon and would like to find some way to automate it more. Would love to spend the money to get the Tunze ATO that would connect right in to the 3168 but that is too expensive. I don't want to spend so little that I kill my tank over it so if there is something really good at a slightly higher price point I am willing to listen.

Is there anything obvious that I am doing wrong here or anything that I could do now to make it better in the future?

One other caveat is sound is an issue. It is in my bedroom so I need it to be somewhat quiet when I sleep which is another reason I am looking at the 3162.

Thanks for any responses!

 

[Peace River]

Hopefully others will jump in with answers, but I want to touch on your ATO question. From what I have seen (and purchased) most ATOs are in the $100-$130+ range. Even the DIY ATO with an optical sensor that a friend built for me was about $60 in parts (if I remember correctly). The only ATO that I have used that is in your price range is a gravity fed ATO (see video for details):



I have three of these that work fine. They do take up extra space and don't fit in every situation. Also, lesson learned - don't skimp on the float. The ones from BRS work well, but the ones from general online retailers that are a third of the price (or less) can slowly leak (not good for an ATO!).

Side note: a canister filter can work, but I would stick with a Tunze.

Good luck with your adventure!

 

[PeterC99]

First - Welcome to R2R!

Bunch of great questions that are hard to answer because of so many different options. Also do you have a budget?

My recommendation would be to slow down a bit and do some research on R2R. Really like that you found a used aquarium (I did the same). Once you decide on certain equipment, you can look for them used.

 

[shakacuz]

firstly, WELCOME!

secondly, if you're cycling the tank, there is really no need for light right now. do not worry about a light cycle until you purchase fish, and eventually corals. for filtering, live rock, sand, and a skimmer is really all you need! (although i've read that people have had success with canister filters, it is just a bit more maintenance work i believe.) there is a such thing as too much filtration, so try NOT to size up in filtration unless you plan on upgrading in the future.

 

[craiginphoenix]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies. A couple clarifications:

I do already have some livestock: 2 clownfish and 2 hermit crabs. They seem to be doing well but I can't ask them.

And yes, I am on a budget unfortunately, but I want to do whats right. If I have to beg my wife, I have to beg my wife. I try to find stuff on the used marketplaces first (eBay/Offerup...) and when it is obviously not something that is going to up there like the Tunze skimmer, I buy it new.

Sounds like I will have to spend more on a top off system. I saw some brands that were not named brands like hygger snd digiten on Amazon and thought maybe one of those would work. I don't want to lose my aquarium by going cheap by $60.

Is there a top off system in the $125 range that is best?

 

[Peace River]

The Tunze is probably the best on the market (but more expensive). I have been pleased with IceCap Dual Optical ATO which is in that range.

 

[shakacuz]

Sounds like I will have to spend more on a top off system. I saw some brands that were not named brands like hygger snd digiten on Amazon and thought maybe one of those would work. I don't want to lose my aquarium by going cheap by $60.

Is there a top off system in the $125 range that is best?

i currently use the duetto-dual sensor ATO by XP aqua. 130$ has yet to cause any issues!

 

[PeterC99]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies. A couple clarifications:

I do already have some livestock: 2 clownfish and 2 hermit crabs. They seem to be doing well but I can't ask them.

And yes, I am on a budget unfortunately, but I want to do whats right. If I have to beg my wife, I have to beg my wife. I try to find stuff on the used marketplaces first (eBay/Offerup...) and when it is obviously not something that is going to up there like the Tunze skimmer, I buy it new.

Sounds like I will have to spend more on a top off system. I saw some brands that were not named brands like hygger snd digiten on Amazon and thought maybe one of those would work. I don't want to lose my aquarium by going cheap by $60.

Is there a top off system in the $125 range that is best?

Don’t forget to checkout the Marketplace on R2R for used items!

Always asked these questions when buying used - condition, age, bought new or used, and why selling. Hopefully seller is upgrading or leaving hobby. If any of the answers sound questionable, then pass.

Good luck!

 

[craiginphoenix]

Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on the powerheads? I see a lot of conflicting information out there.

I usually see 10-20x water flow for lps tanks. But with my 425 gph that is 10x right now. So should I get another 425 and call it done? Other forums have said a 36 bowfront similar to mine should have 2 750 gph powerheads.

What should be the proper flow rate for soft coral?

Is the 950 I have just too powerful? Could I just use that one alone? It seems like most people break it up into multiple powerheads throughout the aquarium.

 

[craiginphoenix]

Also this is an ATO that I was looking at that was in the 60-80 range that has a lot of good reviews. Any thoughts on this?

 

[craiginphoenix]

Also here is a picture of my tank as it is today.

 

[tharbin]

Welcome to R2R! I use a JBJ Nano ATO that so far has been totally reliable (5 months). They are about $100. The Reef Breeders small ATO, I think it is called the Prism is about $60 and has good reviews. The XP Aqua Duettos seem to be liked by many and of course the larger Tunze (the 3155) is the gold standard. I've seen mixed reviews on the smaller Tunze however. Gravity ATOs can be very good if you use a good float switch but they can be a little unsightly.

 

[Neon_Devil]

You should also invest in a water testing kit for nitrate and phosphate. This something you'll definitely need and use throughout the life of your tank. Red Sea makes a good set but theres others out there and your LFS should keep something similar in stock


AN ATO isn't something you necessarily need but it is one of the first upgrades I would suggest. Look for a hang on back(HOB) filter rated for your aquarium. Fluval makes a nice one but just search HOB filter on amazon and it will show a ton of results. Since you're on a budget this filter should work with your setup


For now just focus on keeping your fish alive and your tank not overloaded on Nitrate and Phosphate

 

[craiginphoenix]

I have a question about ATO: Do I need a "sumpless" ATO? I sort of assumed I could just put an ATO into my tank until I saw one that called itself sumpless and now I am wondering if the powerheads and maybe waves sometime in the future will cause problems? Is anyone running an ATO right in their tank without problems? I had sort of decided on the JBJ Nano ATO and now am wondering if I will need something else.

I do have all of the water testing kits and am testing once a week with those and once a day with the quick strips.

Also still wondering what sort of powerheads I need to run for (eventually) soft coral. I do research but there is so much conflicting info. Probably because there is no right answer, I know, but there are also probably some wrong answers too and I don't want to pick that one.

 

[Neon_Devil]

I have a question about ATO: Do I need a "sumpless" ATO? I sort of assumed I could just put an ATO into my tank until I saw one that called itself sumpless and now I am wondering if the powerheads and maybe waves sometime in the future will cause problems? Is anyone running an ATO right in their tank without problems? I had sort of decided on the JBJ Nano ATO and now am wondering if I will need something else.

I do have all of the water testing kits and am testing once a week with those and once a day with the quick strips.

Also still wondering what sort of powerheads I need to run for (eventually) soft coral. I do research but there is so much conflicting info. Probably because there is no right answer, I know, but there are also probably some wrong answers too and I don't want to pick that one.

No there isn't a sumpless ATO. Just place the optic/float in an area that doesn't get a lot of surface flow. Also you don't need tons of surface flow. It's good to have but don't put your powerhead angled at 45 degrees facing up. If you were to use the HOB filter it provides decent surface agitation as well.

As for powerheads hydro makes good powerheads for relatively inexpensive. For softies and LPS you don't need high flow.

 

[shakacuz]

No there isn't a sumpless ATO.

Sumpless Auto Top Off System

Xp Aqua's Sumpless ATO - Complete ATO & Surface Skimmer for Sumpless Aquariums Sumpless ATO is the first and only ATO designed specifically for aquariums without sumps. The combination of the sleek overflow box and the innovative dual-optical sensor ATO will help to keep your aquarium topped...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

there is a sumpless ATO.

 

[craiginphoenix]

That is what I saw that made me question whether I was making a mistake. Obviously don't want to waste money if I don't need it, but I also want something that is going to work for my system long term.

If I need to spend $50 more for an ATO I will.

I am only running 1 425gph powerhead now and there is not a lot of movement on the surface but I am not sure how that will change once I get coral.

 

[Idech]

? I have been looking at the Tunze 3162 and maybe 3168 but I am not sure if the 3168 would be overkill for the money, nor do I know if they would be any more/less effective than the canister filter. Seems like at minimum they would be easier to clean. I realize now the right answer here is a sump but I just don't have the kind of money to commit to an overflow box and everything I would need to make that work.

I don’t have a sump on my 75 gallons. I am using the Tunze Comline 3168 filter, with Tunze Comline 9012 doc skimmer and Tunze ATO 3155 osmolator.

You can’t go wrong with any of those. The filter does a good job, and replacing the filter floss is very easy.

On a 36 gallons tank, I think the Tunze 3162 would be enough.

 

[Neon_Devil]

Sumpless Auto Top Off System

Xp Aqua's Sumpless ATO - Complete ATO & Surface Skimmer for Sumpless Aquariums Sumpless ATO is the first and only ATO designed specifically for aquariums without sumps. The combination of the sleek overflow box and the innovative dual-optical sensor ATO will help to keep your aquarium topped...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

there is a sumpless ATO.

Huh. Well I still stand by my comment that it wouldn't matter much as long as OP didn't have some tidal wave in their tank.

 

[tharbin]

The sumpless ATO is basically an in tank overflow box that holds a standard ATO. You don't need it if you have a surface area that is relatively calm. At least theoretically, the advantages of the sumpless design is that it gives you a calm area and, the big plus is that it is monitoring a much smaller area that will drop quickly if you set the height correctly which will reduce the amount of evaporation needed to trigger a refill. Most optical ATOs need around an inch of evap to trigger. On a large tank, that can be a lot of water.