Nitrate and Phosphate instability problem

[Duncan Tse]

Here's a little background of my tank

37 gallon mixed reef
Feeding half cube frozen , 1/8 tsp pellets , 1/8 tsp reef roids daily
Reactor with 1 tbsp GFO
PO4 : 0.02
Nitrates : 25

Would you say my nitrates are too high or are they at an acceptable levels?

The problem is that I think my high nitrates are due to feeding reef roids daily but if I don't feed it , my phosphates would drop down to 0 the next day. I already turned down my reactor and am using a very small amount of GFO.

Should I remove GFO and stop feeding reef roids to bring down nitrates and increase phosphates?

Or carbon dose something like nopox to decrease nitrates?

If you were in my situation, what would you do? Any feedback is appreciated.

Here's a recent fts for reference

 

[Nicholas Dushynsky]

I would drop the gfo and feed roids less often. But to know how much you would have to test your levels after not dosing roids with the gfo offline. I'm currently dosing phosphates directly to raise it. My nitrates are around 10 and phosphate 0.03 even though I dose twice a day once in the morning and once when o get home 9 hrs later. I think the rocks/substrate absorb it faster than the uptake from corals, hence dosing twice to get an incline in the reading, once I hit my level of 0.1 i will stop dosing for a day and re measure to find what it uses per day and dose accordingly. This is new to me so take my advise with a pinch of salt. I just feel my corals were growing so well they used up the available phosphates a d botto.ed them out now I'm trying to get an acceptable level back and then dose a smaller amount to get the corals back.

 

[Duncan Tse]

I would drop the gfo and feed roids less often. But to know how much you would have to test your levels after not dosing roids with the gfo offline. I'm currently dosing phosphates directly to raise it. My nitrates are around 10 and phosphate 0.03 even though I dose twice a day once in the morning and once when o get home 9 hrs later. I think the rocks/substrate absorb it faster than the uptake from corals, hence dosing twice to get an incline in the reading, once I hit my level of 0.1 i will stop dosing for a day and re measure to find what it uses per day and dose accordingly. This is new to me so take my advise with a pinch of salt. I just feel my corals were growing so well they used up the available phosphates a d botto.ed them out now I'm trying to get an acceptable level back and then dose a smaller amount to get the corals back.

Thanks for your input and now I kind of understand when people say GFO does more harm than good. In your situation, I think 0.03 ppm phospahte is just fine and a lot of people like to run it at that. How are your corals doing right now?

 

[2Wheelsonly]

Thanks for your input and now I kind of understand when people say GFO does more harm than good. In your situation, I think 0.03 ppm phospahte is just fine and a lot of people like to run it at that. How are your corals doing right now?

I stopped using GFO 8 years ago and never looked back. I’d say a majority of my coral deaths resulted in GFO. It’s not that it’s bad, it’s just too good at it’s job. You really have to have out of control po4 to justify it. I have no idea why so many beginner videos act like it’s a required part of a reef.

I feel low po4 causes so much more harm than high. I think beginners that start with white dry rock battle lots of hair algae and think GFO will fix it when it’s the rocks leaching po4 and then they starve their corals because they strip it from the water. I have a 4 year old tank of healthy massive acro colonies and even they will turn on me quicker than a blink of an eye the second my po4 drops below 0.02.

 

[Duncan Tse]

I stopped using GFO 8 years ago and never looked back. I’d say a majority of my coral deaths resulted in GFO. It’s not that it’s bad, it’s just too good at it’s job. You really have to have out of control po4 to justify it. I have no idea why so many beginner videos act like it’s a required part of a reef.

I feel low po4 causes so much more harm than high. I think beginners that start with white dry rock battle lots of hair algae and think GFO will fix it when it’s the rocks leaching po4 and then they starve their corals because they strip it from the water. I have a 4 year old tank of healthy massive acro colonies and even they will turn on me quicker than a blink of an eye the second my po4 drops below 0.02.

I think it's just that there are too many videos and people saying to use gfo so everyone just hops on it trying to bring it down to the magic number 0.03ppm phosphates. This was the same exact for me as I was having algae ptoblems a year ago and I implemented gfo and have been doing it ever since. For some reason in the past few weeks my phosphates have been going way down to 0 and nitrates way up from adding reef roids to i crease phosphates causing an imbalance of nutrients. Thanks for your feedback btw. I may take off gfo and to stop using reef roids to see if I can get my phosphates a little higher and nitrates lower.

 

[Duncan Tse]

I stopped using GFO 8 years ago and never looked back. I’d say a majority of my coral deaths resulted in GFO. It’s not that it’s bad, it’s just too good at it’s job. You really have to have out of control po4 to justify it. I have no idea why so many beginner videos act like it’s a required part of a reef.

I feel low po4 causes so much more harm than high. I think beginners that start with white dry rock battle lots of hair algae and think GFO will fix it when it’s the rocks leaching po4 and then they starve their corals because they strip it from the water. I have a 4 year old tank of healthy massive acro colonies and even they will turn on me quicker than a blink of an eye the second my po4 drops below 0.02.

Btw do you mind telling me what kind of filtration do you run on your reef tank currently?

 

[Nicholas Dushynsky]

Thanks for your input and now I kind of understand when people say GFO does more harm than good. In your situation, I think 0.03 ppm phospahte is just fine and a lot of people like to run it at that. How are your corals doing right now?

They aren't happy just surviving.
If I don't dose it drops so I assume the 2 years of good growth, took all the available phosphates from the tank, I only found this recently when I was losing my sps. I want to get a bit of a buffer and I'm aiming ideally for 0.08-0.1 as I no longer have sps and just lps.

my frogspawn are retracted alot and since dosing they seem to have stopped pulling in more.
All the levels are
Alk 9.3 dkh
Mag 1320
Cal 420
Temp 78.4
Salinity 1.025
Nitrate 10
Phos 0.03
I can only put it down to the phosphates as both nitrates and phosphates bottomed out causing cyano I cured this and now have dinos. I dont like throwing stuff in all at once so I'm sticking with dosing phosphates to reach the level I want and if that doesn't improve them then I'll go a different route?

 

[Duncan Tse]

They aren't happy just surviving.
If I don't dose it drops so I assume the 2 years of good growth, took all the available phosphates from the tank, I only found this recently when I was losing my sps. I want to get a bit of a buffer and I'm aiming ideally for 0.08-0.1 as I no longer have sps and just lps.

my frogspawn are retracted alot and since dosing they seem to have stopped pulling in more.
All the levels are
Alk 9.3 dkh
Mag 1320
Cal 420
Temp 78.4
Salinity 1.025
Nitrate 10
Phos 0.03
I can only put it down to the phosphates as both nitrates and phosphates bottomed out causing cyano I cured this and now have dinos. I dont like throwing stuff in all at once so I'm sticking with dosing phosphates to reach the level I want and if that doesn't improve them then I'll go a different route?

That sounds like a good game plan for you. Going slowly and only changing 1 thing at a time. In my experience when I try changing or adding more then 1 thing, then I would see a decline in my corals.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

Btw do you mind telling me what kind of filtration do you run on your reef tank currently?

A very large skimmer, filter socks and my water change routine is to shop vac my entire sump monthly.

 

[Nicholas Dushynsky]

I was trying to figure out why some of my hammers weren't opening up as much as some of the heads on the same colony , so I decided to remove said colonies and inspect them, I found that I had a few vermatid snails in amongst the heads. So I've removed them from the heads and I'll see later when the lights come back on if that has improved them. Some of the struggling hammers didn't have any snails on them. Which I know is neutrients.

 

[Duncan Tse]

I was trying to figure out why some of my hammers weren't opening up as much as some of the heads on the same colony , so I decided to remove said colonies and inspect them, I found that I had a few vermatid snails in amongst the heads. So I've removed them from the heads and I'll see later when the lights come back on if that has improved them. Some of the struggling hammers didn't have any snails on them. Which I know is neutrients.

That is actually exactly what my toxic hammer is going through right now near the front of the tank. 1 head seems to be not fully opened but the rest of the colony is fine. Keep me up to date on how yours go.

 

[Nicholas Dushynsky]

That is actually exactly what my toxic hammer is going through right now near the front of the tank. 1 head seems to be not fully opened but the rest of the colony is fine. Keep me up to date on how yours go.

Will do this was it about an hour after I'd reglued them back in just before lights out.

 

[SPR1968]

Here's a little background of my tank

37 gallon mixed reef
Feeding half cube frozen , 1/8 tsp pellets , 1/8 tsp reef roids daily
Reactor with 1 tbsp GFO
PO4 : 0.02
Nitrates : 25

Would you say my nitrates are too high or are they at an acceptable levels?

The problem is that I think my high nitrates are due to feeding reef roids daily but if I don't feed it , my phosphates would drop down to 0 the next day. I already turned down my reactor and am using a very small amount of GFO.

Should I remove GFO and stop feeding reef roids to bring down nitrates and increase phosphates?

Or carbon dose something like nopox to decrease nitrates?

If you were in my situation, what would you do? Any feedback is appreciated.

Here's a recent fts for reference

I wouldn’t do anything, your tank looks beautiful as it is and the corals look like their thriving, because they’ve got plenty of food. Your phosphate is perfect so just continue using the GFO as you are.

Maybe the nitrate is slightly raised, but not that much, my S650 runs around 20ish and corals glow with life

With the nitrate at that level you could probably reduce the feeding of coral food or consider it to help. I feed Reef Energy or Roids but only once every week or so.

 

[Duncan Tse]

Just a quick update

Acros are starting to look a little paler

Currently at 0.02ppm PO4 using the ULR hanna checker and 25ppm nitrates using salifert.

I have stopped using GFO and will cut out feeding daily reef roids. Hoping my nitrates will climb down with weekly 10% water changes.

Will keep this thread updated

Other than the acros, everything else seems to be doing well

 

[OREGONIC]

I dose phosphates, if I dont my nitrates jump way up. I always had an issue of high nitrates low phosphates. Once I started dosing phosphates my nitrates dropped fast. I balance my nitrate to phosphates levels by feeding and dosing phosphate along with adjusting the photo period of my algae scrubber. Every once in a while I have to also dose nitrates manually. Seems like a never ending battle, but I have learned to read my corals.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Just a quick update

Acros are starting to look a little paler

Currently at 0.02ppm PO4 using the ULR hanna checker and 25ppm nitrates using salifert.

I have stopped using GFO and will cut out feeding daily reef roids. Hoping my nitrates will climb down with weekly 10% water changes.

Will keep this thread updated

Other than the acros, everything else seems to be doing well

Your tank doesn't look like it has any problems.

The only issue I see with using water changed to reduce NO3 is that those same water changes will reduce PO4 as well.

I agree that daily reefroids may be a little excessive. Have you considered dosing amino's? Something daily like Reef Energy may be useful in your situation. Either way, if your tank looks good, I wouldn't try chasing numbers. My PO4 runs anywhere from 0.015 to 0.03 without anything to remove it other than a protein skimmer. I feed Reef Energy every day, and an additional coral food 3 times a week, mixing between frozen and Reefroids.

 

[Duncan Tse]

I dose phosphates, if I dont my nitrates jump way up. I always had an issue of high nitrates low phosphates. Once I started dosing phosphates my nitrates dropped fast. I balance my nitrate to phosphates levels by feeding and dosing phosphate along with adjusting the photo period of my algae scrubber. Every once in a while I have to also dose nitrates manually. Seems like a never ending battle, but I have learned to read my corals.

I've heard that with increasing phosphates , nitrates will decrease and that might be the case for yours. I will try not adding any addictives for now to try and let my tank balance itself out.

Your tank doesn't look like it has any problems.

The only issue I see with using water changed to reduce NO3 is that those same water changes will reduce PO4 as well.

I agree that daily reefroids may be a little excessive. Have you considered dosing amino's? Something daily like Reef Energy may be useful in your situation. Either way, if your tank looks good, I wouldn't try chasing numbers. My PO4 runs anywhere from 0.015 to 0.03 without anything to remove it other than a protein skimmer. I feed Reef Energy every day, and an additional coral food 3 times a week, mixing between frozen and Reefroids.

The only real concern for me is that my acros are paling and it may be due to the nutrient imbalance. I feel that lps and sofites can tolerate a wide range of parameters so I think they should be fine for when I tinker with the nutrient levels.

Do you know if amino acids like reef energy increase both phosphates and nitrates?

 

[IslandLifeReef]

The only real concern for me is that my acros are paling and it may be due to the nutrient imbalance. I feel that lps and sofites can tolerate a wide range of parameters so I think they should be fine for when I tinker with the nutrient levels.

Do you know if amino acids like reef energy increase both phosphates and nitrates?

Since you have taken the GFO offline, I would wait a couple of weeks before you make any other changes. See what happens. After that, if NO3 is still in the 20+ range with PO4 being 0.02 or less, you could dose PO4 in small amounts hoping to bring up you PO4 and allowing your tank to consume more NO3. You may be PO4 limited, but only time will let us know if you are.

 

[Duncan Tse]

Since you have taken the GFO offline, I would wait a couple of weeks before you make any other changes. See what happens. After that, if NO3 is still in the 20+ range with PO4 being 0.02 or less, you could dose PO4 in small amounts hoping to bring up you PO4 and allowing your tank to consume more NO3. You may be PO4 limited, but only time will let us know if you are.

Yes that is what I would be planning to do. Better to go slow in this hobby than to change multiple parameters at once.

Will keep this updated

 

[Duncan Tse]

Just a quick update. Took GFO offline and started dosing seachem flourish phosphorous.

Acros are still pale but they have some crazy PE now

All PO4 testing were taken with ULR Phosphorous Hanna Checker at the same time daily.

Feb 3 0.018 ppm
Feb 4 0.021 ppm dosed 1mL
Feb 5 0.043 ppm dosed 1.5mL
Feb 6 0.061 ppm dosed 1.5mL

I usually check all my parameters before a water change on Sunday so I'll take a look at nitrates if they have decreased or not.

Will dose up to 0.1 ppm PO4 and then stop dosing. Will feed a little heavier when it gets to 0.1 ppm to try and maintain stable PO4 levels.

Currently feeding 1/2 cube hikari mysis , 1/4 tbsp NLS pellets
Will up to 1/2 cube hikari mysis, 1/2 tbsp NLS pellets when 0.1ppm PO4 is reached.
If PO4 is still dropping I will up to 1/2 cube hikari mysis and 1 tbsp NLS pellets

Any feedback is appreciated on my approach to this.