Hey guys just wondering if it's possible to always have zero nitrates? My tank has been up for 4 months now, with a yellow tang, 2 clown fish, 1 cleaner shrimp, a bunch of snails, and 3 small blue fish wich I forgot the name. I feed every day also. I used and api test kit for nitrates but kept getting zero. I bought a red sea test kit and still zero. Is this normal, and or possible?
Nitrates?
- Thread starter Arom0024
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It is very difficult to maintain at zero. I would not worry to much if you have a small amount showing up with your test. Just maintain your water changes and most important is to not overfeed your tank.
mcarroll
10K Club member
It just means your maintenance habits are keeping up with nutrient inputs so far! :) Good balancing act!! Keep going slow in the stocking and you'll be able to keep it there without too much trouble! :) :)
You don't generally want zero nitrate with corals beacuase they need at least some nutrients too, more specifically the zooxanthellae. IMO though, unless my corals were suffering, I wouldn't worry about it.
What's weird is that I have a tank with 0 n03 and p04 and most corals do fine. My other tank will literally melt soft corals and has 0 p04 and 5 n03.
What's weird is that I have a tank with 0 n03 and p04 and most corals do fine. My other tank will literally melt soft corals and has 0 p04 and 5 n03.
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A lot has to do with the quality of your live rock....more porous rock allows more denitrification bacteria to grow, converting nitrates back into nitrogen gas. I went over a year with 0 nitrates (and a pretty heavy fish load). I just recently started dosing nitrates to bring them up a little.
mcarroll
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Are lighting, water flow and coral placements fairly identical between thanks?
Do the two tanks literally share water and you're saying one coral in the system likes it one way while the other coral does poorly, and vis versa when conditions change? That scenario controls for a lot of factors vs two separate systems where there might be a lot more variances.
Zero PO4 can be a problem unto itself:
Limited phosphorus availability is the Achilles heel of tropical reef corals in a warming ocean
I'm assuming the one tank won't grow softies because the phosphates are bottomed out. However, my levels are also zero in my larger tank which will at least keep softies alive. The tanks are not connected and flow, lighting, etc are all similar.
mcarroll
10K Club member
How similar? Relative levels of all of them are potentially big factors in comparing the two tanks.
Zero phosphates at 10,000 lux would be a lot better tolerated than at 20,000 lux....and those levels don't always look all that different to the naked eye.
Are you using the same light fixtures at the same mounting height with similar programming on both, for example? Or do you have a light meter to compare them?
Flow is pretty hard to characterize since it's more or less invisible. :D But are you at least using the same pumps and a similar rock layout in both tanks?
Also, 5 ppm NO3 (listed for your melting tank) might actually be pretty high to throw off equilibrium under the circumstances. PO4 is very crucial.
The tank with 0/0 ppm isn't ideal, but at least it's balanced where it is.
You might find some more good, related links in the Nutrients section on my blog, such as:
Results of the 1991 United States-Israel Workshop, “Nutrient Limitations in the Symbiotic Association between Zooxanthellae and Reef-building Corals”
Heck of a title, but dig this one quote and then go click and read it....especially the bolded part and what follows....it's your melting tank: ;)
There's another great article linked at the bottom of that one you should also read.
2¢
Zero phosphates at 10,000 lux would be a lot better tolerated than at 20,000 lux....and those levels don't always look all that different to the naked eye.
Are you using the same light fixtures at the same mounting height with similar programming on both, for example? Or do you have a light meter to compare them?
Flow is pretty hard to characterize since it's more or less invisible. :D But are you at least using the same pumps and a similar rock layout in both tanks?
Also, 5 ppm NO3 (listed for your melting tank) might actually be pretty high to throw off equilibrium under the circumstances. PO4 is very crucial.
The tank with 0/0 ppm isn't ideal, but at least it's balanced where it is.
You might find some more good, related links in the Nutrients section on my blog, such as:
Results of the 1991 United States-Israel Workshop, “Nutrient Limitations in the Symbiotic Association between Zooxanthellae and Reef-building Corals”
Heck of a title, but dig this one quote and then go click and read it....especially the bolded part and what follows....it's your melting tank: ;)
"…the argument is made that under normal conditions in nutrient-poor tropical seas, zooxanthellate corals are successful because they are closed systems with respect to nitrogen. Growth of zooxanthellae under these conditions is not balanced with respect to fixed carbon because of the low rate of nitrogen supply.
As a result, the excess carbon is translocated to the animal host. Increasing the nitrogen supply leads to rapid growth of the zooxanthellae, with consequent reduction of translocated carbon to the host. Eutrophic conditions allow the zooxanthellae to outgrow their hosts and the host loses control over the population of its symbiotic algae. Thus, maintenance of a balanced coral symbiotic association appears to require low ambient nutrient concentrations."
As a result, the excess carbon is translocated to the animal host. Increasing the nitrogen supply leads to rapid growth of the zooxanthellae, with consequent reduction of translocated carbon to the host. Eutrophic conditions allow the zooxanthellae to outgrow their hosts and the host loses control over the population of its symbiotic algae. Thus, maintenance of a balanced coral symbiotic association appears to require low ambient nutrient concentrations."
There's another great article linked at the bottom of that one you should also read.
2¢
There is difference here... the tank with softies gets around 10,000 lux and the tank without gets around 15,000 lux. Everything else is pretty similar except for the ratios and nutrient export methods. One uses carbon dosing, the other has an algae scrubber.
When comparing two "similar" systems it makes you realize how different each individual tank is. And those little differences can make a big difference.
mcarroll
10K Club member
You've got that right! "The devil is in the details" eh? :)
Carbon dosing is also a factor...charges up their metabolism or something and likely makes them more susceptible to the low-PO4 confditions. (I consider carbon dosing a coral stressor.)
More PO4 is your answer in all cases. There's nothing really all that wrong with the lighting differences or carbon dosing, etc. (You check out any of those articles, btw? Any thoughts? :) )
Feeding an extra pinch of flake food a day is one easy way to do that.
(I actually recommend an Eheim auto-feeder for anyone with a significant fish population (no idea in your case; just sayin') so that there are regular nutrients being added to the tank. It shouldn't be much, but at least one extra, small dose of flake during the normal off-feeding hours. Their new feeders are pretty good at small doses, so you might be able to get away with several small flake feedings without overfeeding.)
Carbon dosing is also a factor...charges up their metabolism or something and likely makes them more susceptible to the low-PO4 confditions. (I consider carbon dosing a coral stressor.)
More PO4 is your answer in all cases. There's nothing really all that wrong with the lighting differences or carbon dosing, etc. (You check out any of those articles, btw? Any thoughts? :) )
Feeding an extra pinch of flake food a day is one easy way to do that.
(I actually recommend an Eheim auto-feeder for anyone with a significant fish population (no idea in your case; just sayin') so that there are regular nutrients being added to the tank. It shouldn't be much, but at least one extra, small dose of flake during the normal off-feeding hours. Their new feeders are pretty good at small doses, so you might be able to get away with several small flake feedings without overfeeding.)
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