Ongoing Phosphate Issues

PaulB777

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I'm looking for some advice about an ongoing Phosphate issue I'm having. My levels (with a Hanna ULR tester) have been hovering around .2x for quite some time and have been much higher for short periods in the past couple of months (>.5). The 150g tank is about a year old at this point with a crushed coral bottom and some reef saver rock. I have 2 tangs, 4 clowns, a mandarin, a diamond goby and some snails & emerald crabs all of which seem happy as can be but no coral yet. I feed them a pinch of BRS pellets twice a day. All of the other tank parameters seem reasonable (Temp 80, 0 Ammonia/nitrite, pH 8, salinity 35, nitrates 5, alk 9, cal 450, mg 1450) but as expected I'm fighting a lot of algae on my rocks, even with a much shortened light schedule.

For control I've been trying a few things. First I tried GFO in a media bag in the sump with no real change. I bought an Ice Cap algae scrubber---which is producing a lot of brownish algae---but so far that hasn't affected things much. I've also been using Phosphate-E, which does work quite well in the short term, but the levels always seem to creep back in a few days and I'm concerned that I'm already on my second bottle (which seems excessive). I finally bit the bullet and just installed the BRS dual GFO/carbon reactor with the 150GPH pump (along with a third bio media reactor for nitrates) but after almost 3 weeks of that (as much GFO as it would hold) and changing the GFO every week (which I know I shouldn't need to do so soon) my levels are still way too high and not really going down. And of course I do weekly 15% water changes as well using RO water and Reef Crystals salt.

As for root causes I can only think of two possibilities. I did have an issue with my RO system for awhile so I suspect I could have introduced some phosphates a few months ago that way. I also had a Royal Gramma a month ago that "disappeared" and I suspect may have crawled into some inaccessible cavity in the reef saver rock and died but I could never locate him.

So what am I missing? My assumption was that the GFO would knock it out quickly but that hasn't proved to be the case. I've heard that Phosphate can "leach" out of rock for a long time but shouldn't the GFO be able to keep up with that? Should I keep using Phosphate-E (which does work)? Any suggestions would be appreciated!
 

Michael Rossi

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Hmmm. I would think the GFO would do the trick. I have a 75 and ran a quarter of the suggested GFO in a mesh bag (high flow area) for two days and phosphate went from .4 to .13. I actually took it out later that night as I didn’t want to it get too low.
 

Larry L

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Should probably double-check for phosphates in your top-off and water change water, just to be sure you aren't re-introducing them there.

Your tank isn't very old, but it's possible that you've built up an excess of phosphates in your sandbed and rock, so even though you knock down the levels in the water the stuff leaches out of the rock to reach equilibrium again. If that's the case, there's not a lot you can do other than to keep knocking it down until the buildup is depleted.

Brightwell's Phosphate-E isn't very concentrated as far as the commercial lanthanum-based phosphate removers go, I've found Blue Life's Phosphate Rx to be a lot more economical. Make sure you dose into a fine-mesh filter sock or into the center of your skimmer to have the best chance of removing the precipitates out of your water column.
 

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What type of filtration do you have? Sump? canister? what type of lighting? Now that you have your RO/DI issue fixed what do you store your water in? Have you tested that? what is your TDS of your RO/DI water coming out of your system before you mix your salt?
 
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PaulB777

PaulB777

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Should probably double-check for phosphates in your top-off and water change water, just to be sure you aren't re-introducing them there.

Your tank isn't very old, but it's possible that you've built up an excess of phosphates in your sandbed and rock, so even though you knock down the levels in the water the stuff leaches out of the rock to reach equilibrium again. If that's the case, there's not a lot you can do other than to keep knocking it down until the buildup is depleted.

Brightwell's Phosphate-E isn't very concentrated as far as the commercial lanthanum-based phosphate removers go, I've found Blue Life's Phosphate Rx to be a lot more economical. Make sure you dose into a fine-mesh filter sock or into the center of your skimmer to have the best chance of removing the precipitates out of your water column.

Thanks I'll look into that Phosphate Rx. So you don't think that there's a lot of risk to using a larger amount of those kinds of products like I've been using? I can see that they work...I was just getting nervous about having to continually use them.
 
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PaulB777

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What type of filtration do you have? Sump? canister? what type of lighting? Now that you have your RO/DI issue fixed what do you store your water in? Have you tested that? what is your TDS of your RO/DI water coming out of your system before you mix your salt?

I have sump with the first stage as a half stage bio ball drip and then the other half submerged with ceramic balls. The next stage is a Life Reef skimmer. The next stage is the pump feed for the UV light and algae scrubber. The last stage is the pump feed for the GFO/Carbon/Biomedia reactors. Lighting consists of 3 Kessil A360s along with 8 T5s but those have been off for quite awhile due to the algae outbreak. As for TDS, it is and has been maintained at 0 since I had the RO issue awhile back. The mixing station tubs were also drained & scrubbed then so I'm very sure that's not an issue now (although it very well could have been awhile back).
 
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Hmmm. I would think the GFO would do the trick. I have a 75 and ran a quarter of the suggested GFO in a mesh bag (high flow area) for two days and phosphate went from .4 to .13. I actually took it out later that night as I didn’t want to it get too low.

Yeah that's the most puzzling & frustrating part. Everything I've heard is that the GFO should knock it out quickly but so far that's not been the case.
 

Pistondog

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I'm looking for some advice about an ongoing Phosphate issue I'm having. My levels (with a Hanna ULR tester) have been hovering around .2x for quite some time and have been much higher for short periods in the past couple of months (>.5). The 150g tank is about a year old at this point with a crushed coral bottom and some reef saver rock. I have 2 tangs, 4 clowns, a mandarin, a diamond goby and some snails & emerald crabs all of which seem happy as can be but no coral yet. I feed them a pinch of BRS pellets twice a day. All of the other tank parameters seem reasonable (Temp 80, 0 Ammonia/nitrite, pH 8, salinity 35, nitrates 5, alk 9, cal 450, mg 1450) but as expected I'm fighting a lot of algae on my rocks, even with a much shortened light schedule.

For control I've been trying a few things. First I tried GFO in a media bag in the sump with no real change. I bought an Ice Cap algae scrubber---which is producing a lot of brownish algae---but so far that hasn't affected things much. I've also been using Phosphate-E, which does work quite well in the short term, but the levels always seem to creep back in a few days and I'm concerned that I'm already on my second bottle (which seems excessive). I finally bit the bullet and just installed the BRS dual GFO/carbon reactor with the 150GPH pump (along with a third bio media reactor for nitrates) but after almost 3 weeks of that (as much GFO as it would hold) and changing the GFO every week (which I know I shouldn't need to do so soon) my levels are still way too high and not really going down. And of course I do weekly 15% water changes as well using RO water and Reef Crystals salt.

As for root causes I can only think of two possibilities. I did have an issue with my RO system for awhile so I suspect I could have introduced some phosphates a few months ago that way. I also had a Royal Gramma a month ago that "disappeared" and I suspect may have crawled into some inaccessible cavity in the reef saver rock and died but I could never locate him.

So what am I missing? My assumption was that the GFO would knock it out quickly but that hasn't proved to be the case. I've heard that Phosphate can "leach" out of rock for a long time but shouldn't the GFO be able to keep up with that? Should I keep using Phosphate-E (which does work)? Any suggestions would be appreciated!
I'd switch foods to frozen mysis for a month just to eliminate the food as the possible phosphate problem.
I would think any effects from the dead fish would be over in a couple, of weeks max, maybe days depending on cuc.
I had a year long similar battle with phosphate, nothing worked except lanthanum. Changed nori brand to 2 little fishes and that solved the problem.
 

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Wow what diversity of nutrient problems we get .
I have a 90 that seams to always have 0 phosphate. I mean zero.000 ppb Hanna ULR tester. I’m doseing now . Wouldn’t it be nice to hook up the two aquariums together, maybe they would balance out ? Just saying
 
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PaulB777

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Wow what diversity of nutrient problems we get .
I have a 90 that seams to always have 0 phosphate. I mean zero.000 ppb Hanna ULR tester. I’m doseing now . Wouldn’t it be nice to hook up the two aquariums together, maybe they would balance out ? Just saying

Haha yeah being able to meet in the middle might be nice. Are your nitrates okay? You must be carbon dosing maybe? Just be careful of Dinos....
 

Garets92553

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I use the phosphate-E works great. My phosphates were at 1.76 really high. Mixed the phosphateE with RO dosed over 2 days. Went to .83. Waited couple days dosed again at .53. Waited couple days started again last night. I’m doing full doses to bring to zero I know it won’t hit zero cause it’s leaching from my rocks. I got them from someone breaking down there tank so who knows how they ran there tank. 220gal water volume. Dosing nopox for nitrates also.
 

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Haha yeah being able to meet in the middle might be nice. Are your nitrates okay? You must be carbon dosing maybe? Just be careful of Dinos....
Actually I’m not carbon doseing or useing any form of exports of any kind . It’s so weird. But since I’m doseing phosphate, I’m getting algae for the first time in months. And coralline algae is taking off to . My corals are all sick and the tank is in general in a state of crash . I’m going to ride it out . I’m doseing useing James doseing calculator .150 ppm per day, and I’m at .040 as of today. My aquarium is useing it .
 

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