Optimal phosphate level? (Mixed Reef)

[icejam]

I feel like I need to post this newer phosphate/nitrate research coming out in the main forum or something. Phosphates are criminally misunderstood by the reefing community.

I am of the belief that 50% of coral issues on the site stem from phosphate deficiency.

that would be awesome - I think mine are in the 'coral issues' category - my phosphates and nitrates have been at dead 0.0 for moths [and somehow corals stay alive].

 

[living_tribunal]

that would be awesome - I think mine are in the 'coral issues' category - my phosphates and nitrates have been at dead 0.0 for moths [and somehow corals stay alive].

Why would you even risk that? Corals need phosphates to survive. It’s actually one of the main reasons for whole coral reefs dying.

 

[living_tribunal]

Interesting. How old is your tank?

Not too old. Couple of months.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Not too old. Couple of months.

Cool. I'd be interested to see the same tank in a year. Do you have any older tanks that are operating in the same phosphate to nitrate condition?

 

[icejam]

Why would you even risk that? Corals need phosphates to survive. It’s actually one of the main reasons for whole coral reefs dying.

I am not doing it on purpose. I am feeding like there is no tomorrow, dosing flourish, and levels stay at zero. I have no idea where it's being consumed

 

[living_tribunal]

I am not doing it on purpose. I am feeding like there is no tomorrow, dosing flourish, and levels stay at zero. I have no idea where it's being consumed

How old is your tank and did you use dry rock?

 

[living_tribunal]

Cool. I'd be interested to see the same tank in a year. Do you have any older tanks that are operating in the same phosphate to nitrate condition?

Nope, algae can only grow up to the available nitrate level which is how it works. I am a phosphate hawk and keep my N/P in a very tight range of 5-7x. It’s the conditions for optimal coral growth as evidenced in the research above and prevents any algae from growing given the low nitrates.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Nope, algae can only grow up to the available nitrate level which is how it works. I am a phosphate hawk and keep my N/P in a very tight range of 5-7x. It’s the conditions for optimal coral growth as evidenced in the research above and prevents any algae from growing given the low nitrates.

Time will tell.

 

[living_tribunal]

Time will tell.

Well we know very well how algae operates, people have been studying it for centuries. The relationship between nitrate and phosphate for algae growth is a tight one. We know with 100% certainty that it can’t grow without the other.

To put it simply, algae cannot grow with only phosphate.

 

[icejam]

How old is your tank and did you use dry rock?

18 month old, rock came from actual coral reef about 25 years ago and has been in aquarium(s) ever since

 

[living_tribunal]

18 month old, rock came from actual coral reef about 25 years ago and has been in aquarium(s) ever since

That’s strange then. How many fish do you have, feeding periods per day, and photoperiod for fuge?

 

[icejam]

That’s strange then. How many fish do you have, feeding periods per day, and photoperiod for fuge?

2 clowns
six line wrasse
2 damsels
goby + shrimp combo
55 gal + sump
feeding 3 time a day - mix of home made food, flakes / pellets / phyto.
no skimmer. fuge light on for 6h [reduced from 12h] and 90% of chaeto removed weekly, no change for months now.
i am using salifert for testing.

 

[living_tribunal]

2 clowns
six line wrasse
2 damsels
goby + shrimp combo
55 gal + sump
feeding 3 time a day - mix of home made food, flakes / pellets / phyto.
no skimmer. fuge light on for 6h [reduced from 12h] and 90% of chaeto removed weekly, no change for months now.
i am using salifert for testing.

Have you tried no fuge photoperiod to see if it has an impact?

 

[icejam]

Have you tried no fuge photoperiod to see if it has an impact?

I haven't. Would it be better to remove chaeto or just turn off the lights for couple of days?

 

[ReefGeezer]

i am using salifert for testing.

You might want a better phosphate test before making any rash changes. The Salifert kit, while fairly accurate enough higher levels, just doesn't have the resolution required. Maybe try a Hanna ULR Colorometer.

 

[icejam]

You might want a better phosphate test before making any rash changes. The Salifert kit, while fairly accurate enough higher levels, just doesn't have the resolution required. Maybe try a Hanna ULR Colorometer.

I'll look into getting one but salifert has a resolution of 0.01. Is Hanna that much better?

 

[living_tribunal]

I'll look into getting one but salifert has a resolution of 0.01. Is Hanna that much better?

The phosphorous checker is without a doubt. Most accurate hobbyist test kit.

 

[living_tribunal]

I haven't. Would it be better to remove chaeto or just turn off the lights for couple of days?

Don’t remove the chaeto, you’ll probably want it when things stabilize. Just run a day with 0 photoperiod and measure phosphate the next day.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

The HN/LP levels in the study were HN/LP = ~ 38 μM NO3−/~0.18 μM PO4−; N ratio = 211:1

their figures are in μM. the ratio is actually 141:1

high nitrogen/low phosphorus (HN/LP = ~ 38 μM NO3−/~0.18 μM PO4−; N : P ratio = 211:1)
That means
phosphate: 0.017 ppm
nitrate: 2.4 ppm

cheers

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Regarding algae, algae will only grow up to the level that the nitrate will permit it to. So with a low nitrate/normal phosphate setup, you won't have any algae and you will have a lot of happy corals.

I'm not too sure its as simple as this. I get algae growth in my scrubber even when NO3 & PO4 are reading zero.