N03 and P04 level convo

[BrokeBudgetReef]

Hey all,
Tank info:
180g mixed reef
cal 460
alk 9.3
mag 1460
ph 8.3
NO3 5.7
PO4 .31

I am looking to get opinions on my nitrate and phosphate levels.

So, today I decided to stop being lazy and tested my nitrates and phosphate in prep on my first water change in 4 months.... (I know bad reef management by not doing water changes) but to my surprise my no3 was at 5.7ppm and po4 was at .31. I was shocked as everything in my tank looks amazing! There is no algae and corals seem to grow and be happy. My instinct tells me NO3 is too low but my mind says not to change anything as its doing fine.

My questions to the masses are:
If everything looks good should I change my levels?
If I change my levels where should the nitrates land?
Should I even do a water change with the levels so weird?

 

[Jekyl]

Could so something to bring the phosphate down. However, if it's not broke.....

 

[BrokeBudgetReef]

Could so something to bring the phosphate down. However, if it's not broke.....

That's exactly how I feel! Numbers tell me something is off but my mind says don't make changes.

 

[Jekyl]

That's exactly how I feel! Numbers tell me something is off but my mind says don't make changes.

If it makes you feel better, I have softies and nems, never test and change water 2 or 3 times a year.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

My questions to the masses are:
If everything looks good should I change my levels?

If you want my opinion, leave things alone.

It's funny that everyone touts low nutrients to stave off something bad, when there are countless reefs with high N and P that look amazing.

My nitrates are in the 50s and phosphates are higher than the hanna tester can read. Yet my tank is thriving.

I don't chase those numbers, because like you, I don't see the need. Algae is controlled by fish and inverts. Why disrupt a seemingly balanced ecosystem just because parameters don't follow the norm?

 

[X-37B]

All corals love stability.
If your system looks good then just come up with a plan to keep the numbers within a set range around those numbers.

 

[BrokeBudgetReef]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

My sand bed needs to be cleaned desperately so I think what I'm going to do it dose the new water to close to the same no3 and po4 levels as the tank is currently. Maybe raising no3 a little.

That way my levels don't change much but I'm still able to get the sand cleaned.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I posted a comment a couple of days ago that may be relevant here:

For example, a super common topic is what levels of nitrate and phosphate are suitable and/or best. There are threads about this almost every day. I don't want to make this thread about a particular chemistry topic, but it exemplifies a case where there is a lot of conflicting info around, even from experts that keep great tanks and are very well versed in the complexity of the issue. The fact that experts may disagree and provide evidence that disagrees can lead some folks to falsely assume anything is OK, when in reality, it may be the unspoken parts of the question are what matters most.

There are dozens of tables of optimal parameters floating around, including from me, and while I understand that folks want a simple table, I'm convinced that such tables may sometimes do a disservice because the optimal values may relate strongly not only to what is in the tank (which most reefers accept) but also what else is happening in the tank (which I'm not sure most reefers do generally think about, and usually is not part of the question or the answers provided).

In the nutrient case, for example, there are different definitions of what the question is really asking about:

1. Coral Color
2. Coral growth rate
3. Coral health (resistance to disease, RTN, STN, etc.)
4. Prevention of pests (algae, cyano, dinos, diatoms, etc.)

All organisms must get N and P from somewhere. But it can be a mistake to assume that any given organism gets most or all of it from nitrate and phosphate, since there are many other sources:

1. Orthophosphate, nitrate
2. Ammonia
3. Various other dissolved inorganic phosphate forms (essentially two or more phosphates chained together
4. Dissolved organic compounds providing N and P
5. Particulate organic materials (such as whole phyto or bacteria) providing N and P

Since the amount of ALL of those will vary from tank to tank, it may be oversimplified to focus only on the easy to measure sources (nitrate and phosphate):

When jda says his reef tank does best with very low nitrate (0.1 ppm) and phosphate (1-3 ppb) , it may well be due to his heavy in heavy out philosophy which boosts all of 2-5, and that same answer may not apply to different feeding plans or husbandry aspects.

When Hans-Werner Balling says to keep phosphate at 0.1 ppm and nitrate and other nitrogen compounds as low as possible, his intent to to defeat algae while allowing corals to grow.

When Thales keeps his reef tank at up to 100 ppm nitrate and 1 ppm phosphate, he has observed little difference in the visual observation of his reef aquarium when he has changed levels to lower values.

So what nitrate and phosphate values are best?

 

[BrokeBudgetReef]

I posted a comment a couple of days ago that may be relevant here:

For example, a super common topic is what levels of nitrate and phosphate are suitable and/or best. There are threads about this almost every day. I don't want to make this thread about a particular chemistry topic, but it exemplifies a case where there is a lot of conflicting info around, even from experts that keep great tanks and are very well versed in the complexity of the issue. The fact that experts may disagree and provide evidence that disagrees can lead some folks to falsely assume anything is OK, when in reality, it may be the unspoken parts of the question are what matters most.

There are dozens of tables of optimal parameters floating around, including from me, and while I understand that folks want a simple table, I'm convinced that such tables may sometimes do a disservice because the optimal values may relate strongly not only to what is in the tank (which most reefers accept) but also what else is happening in the tank (which I'm not sure most reefers do generally think about, and usually is not part of the question or the answers provided).

In the nutrient case, for example, there are different definitions of what the question is really asking about:

1. Coral Color
2. Coral growth rate
3. Coral health (resistance to disease, RTN, STN, etc.)
4. Prevention of pests (algae, cyano, dinos, diatoms, etc.)

All organisms must get N and P from somewhere. But it can be a mistake to assume that any given organism gets most or all of it from nitrate and phosphate, since there are many other sources:

1. Orthophosphate, nitrate
2. Ammonia
3. Various other dissolved inorganic phosphate forms (essentially two or more phosphates chained together
4. Dissolved organic compounds providing N and P
5. Particulate organic materials (such as whole phyto or bacteria) providing N and P

Since the amount of ALL of those will vary from tank to tank, it may be oversimplified to focus only on the easy to measure sources (nitrate and phosphate):

When jda says his reef tank does best with very low nitrate (0.1 ppm) and phosphate (1-3 ppb) , it may well be due to his heavy in heavy out philosophy which boosts all of 2-5, and that same answer may not apply to different feeding plans or husbandry aspects.

When Hans-Werner Balling says to keep phosphate at 0.1 ppm and nitrate and other nitrogen compounds as low as possible, his intent to to defeat algae while allowing corals to grow.

When Thales keeps his reef tank at up to 100 ppm nitrate and 1 ppm phosphate, he has observed little difference in the visual observation of his reef aquarium when he has changed levels to lower values.

So what nitrate and phosphate values are best?

Thank you for the detailed response! Very well written and full of information per usual. I swear every time I read a post from you I feel I need to learn more lol

So my mindset to this is if the tank is happy leave it be and if I'm reading this correctly you are saying each method and each tank is different, requiring each tank be taken case by case?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm reading this correctly you are saying each method and each tank is different, requiring each tank be taken case by case?

For N and P, yes. It it least not as simple as it may seem at first.

You're welcome and thanks.

 

[Dburr1014]

I also agree to listen to the tank.
I also like a little water change every now and again to freshen things up. I settled on a 1% water change daily.

No pic of the tank OP?

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Hey all,
Tank info:
180g mixed reef
cal 460
alk 9.3
mag 1460
ph 8.3
NO3 5.7
PO4 .31

I am looking to get opinions on my nitrate and phosphate levels.

So, today I decided to stop being lazy and tested my nitrates and phosphate in prep on my first water change in 4 months.... (I know bad reef management by not doing water changes) but to my surprise my no3 was at 5.7ppm and po4 was at .31. I was shocked as everything in my tank looks amazing! There is no algae and corals seem to grow and be happy. My instinct tells me NO3 is too low but my mind says not to change anything as its doing fine.

My questions to the masses are:
If everything looks good should I change my levels?
If I change my levels where should the nitrates land?
Should I even do a water change with the levels so weird?

This is where the idea of NOT chasing numbers comes into play. If your tank is thriving, and no algae, then leave it alone. If you go trying to "fix" what isn't broke, you could really mess things up. I always use how mt tank and it's inhabitants look as my first go to.

 

[BrokeBudgetReef]

I also agree to listen to the tank.
I also like a little water change every now and again to freshen things up. I settled on a 1% water change daily.

No pic of the tank OP?

Here you got just taken now. So not everything is open as lights just started to turn on.

 

[BrokeBudgetReef]

This is where the idea of NOT chasing numbers comes into play. If your tank is thriving, and no algae, then leave it alone. If you go trying to "fix" what isn't broke, you could really mess things up. I always use how mt tank and it's inhabitants look as my first go to.

You are exactly right. That's why I hate testing bc I always see the results and then overth8nk them bc they may not be "the recommended values"

I'm sure I'm not the only person who does this lol knows the tank is fine buy gets scared by numbers

 

[Dburr1014]

You are exactly right. That's why I hate testing bc I always see the results and then overth8nk them bc they may not be "the recommended values"

I'm sure I'm not the only person who does this lol knows the tank is fine buy gets scared by numbers

Nice system!

So true.
I just topped up my carx a couple weeks ago and now my pH is slightly higher(not complaining). I attributed that to slightly higher alkalinity now. Haven't tested it but I'm sure I'll get those results. Everything is doing okay so I'm not worried.

 

[BrokeBudgetReef]

Nice system!

So true.
I just topped up my carx a couple weeks ago and now my pH is slightly higher(not complaining). I attributed that to slightly higher alkalinity now. Haven't tested it but I'm sure I'll get those results. Everything is doing okay so I'm not worried.

Thanks! That's my next goal get 8.3 constant for ph.

"If it's not broke don't fix it" that how a normally reef lol