Overflow Problem

[ReefPops]

Finally got our newest tank up and running and we having a strange issue with our overflow that we just can seem to figure out (by we, I mean my husband because I am not the equipment girl at all).

Anyway, the tank is a cube with a built in center overflow. The output from the main pump (nozzle) is in the center about four inches from the bottom. The issue is that we are getting non constant water over flow, causing a rush into the sump and a loud swoosh sound from there and in the overflow. Basically the level in the back is doing a rise and fall and is therefore causing an uneven flow. It never falls below the standpipe drain, but seems like it gets plugged so rises about, pressure causes it to go through and then it drops in a huge "wave."

If anyone has any idea what might be the issue, it would be greatly appreciated. I apologize if my lingo is incorrect, but I'm not really in to the plumbing setup stuff. This is the first time we have ever seen this happen and other than the output being at the bottom and not at the top, this is no different that any other setup we have ever done. We have tried a few things to try to figure out the issue, such as moving the flex tubing to try to get air out and stuff like that, but nothing seems to get it to stop.

 

[byronious]

can you post a picture of your overflow?

 

[ReefPops]

I have a video of the overflow box. The pipe at the top of the screen is the drain into the sump and the white pvc at the bottom of the screen is part of the pipe coming from the main pump.

-Mr. ReefPops


[video=youtube;a4xL6cts2gY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4xL6cts2gY[/video]

 

[ReefPops]

Bump for the am crew Any ideas?

 

[JMSKI333]

Research Durso standpipe. It's something you can make out of PVC. Your current drain is not vented properly causing a siphon. There are plenty other options but a Durso is what I use and seemed to be the quietest option on my tank.

 

[Reefing8EZ]

Research Durso standpipe. It's something you can make out of PVC. Your current drain is not vented properly causing a siphon. There are plenty other options but a Durso is what I use and seemed to be the quietest option on my tank.

+1, durso standpipe is what u need. U can get all the parts at HD or Lowes, pretty inexpensive.
You can search YouTube for vids on DIY Durso Standpipe. HTH..

 

[ReefPops]

Thanks everyone. Because of how the overflow is, we're restricted with room making the Durso a tough option (normally we would have used one). We tried the Maggie muffler, but for sake of the video and trouble shooting it was off in the video. The manufacturer also didn't give us the PVC piping for it so we are assuming its to function without it fine (silly to assume though).

 

[AZDesertRat]

The Maggie will work as would a Stockman design standpipe in your cramped quarters. The problem with the open pipe like you have is it needs a source of air which is what the little center hole in the Maggie and Stockman do. I was not real happy with my Maggie so I drilled the hole out large enough to sick a piece of airline tubing in to and fed the tubing down a couple inches so it sits inside the standpipe and the performance improved and noise went down. I stil prefer my Stockman though and it only cost me about $1.50 to fabricate. The Maggie does not come with any PVC, not sure what you think you are missing?

Make sure your return nozzle is close to the surface so when power goes off you don't drain the display into your sump and cause a flood. If its slightly below the surface the flow siphon will break once it is exposed to atmosphere and there is no way it can flood since water cannot jump uphill.

 

[ReefPops]

The Maggie will work as would a Stockman design standpipe in your cramped quarters. The problem with the open pipe like you have is it needs a source of air which is what the little center hole in the Maggie and Stockman do. I was not real happy with my Maggie so I drilled the hole out large enough to sick a piece of airline tubing in to and fed the tubing down a couple inches so it sits inside the standpipe and the performance improved and noise went down. I stil prefer my Stockman though and it only cost me about $1.50 to fabricate. The Maggie does not come with any PVC, not sure what you think you are missing?

Make sure your return nozzle is close to the surface so when power goes off you don't drain the display into your sump and cause a flood. If its slightly below the surface the flow siphon will break once it is exposed to atmosphere and there is no way it can flood since water cannot jump uphill.

Thank you! I'll look in to the stockman. I'm glad most people seem to think the standpipe is the issue, but I'm concerned because the Maggie did not fix it. Still had the same problem. As for the missing PVC I meant when I bought the tank/stand/sump they gave us the plumbing so we thought it would work (of course we had other things we upgraded), but as far as the standpipe, nothing but just that was included.

Lastly, nozzle is actually still near the bottom, but we installed a check valve to avoid the backflow. Works on our other tank so hopefully will do the same here. Do other people run a low nozzle to the top? I thought keeping it low would be good for flow there and my vortech would be good for the top.

 

[ReefPops]

Here's a quick video of the Maggie Muffler installed.

-Mr. ReefPops

[video=youtube;N9ATNmMOxGQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ATNmMOxGQ[/video]

 

[AZDesertRat]

Check valves are a disaster waiting to happen and have absolutely NO place in the aquarium hobby. It does not have to be a catastrophic failure, even one grain of sand or a flake of food will defeat a check valve! I cannot stress this enough....... Remove it immediately if not sooner!

An aquarium is not pristine drinking water, it has organics, floaties like food or algae or fish waste. All of these things can sit on a valve seat and cause a trickle which will lead to a flood, usually at night or when you are not at home according to Murphy's law. I beg you to get rid of it so you can sleep soundly at night, I beleiev many others will chime in here on this learned opinion. Its a ticking time bomb.

Raise the return so only a very small, easily calculated amount of water flows back before the siphon breaks and you have an air gap, the best form of protection known to man and 100% foolproof and maintenance free. Nothing to clean ever.

You don't have a ball or gate valve on the overflow do you? The over flow should be completely unrestricted with no valves and as few fittings as possible so it has a nice smooth laminar flow. You can install a ball valve on the dicharge side of the return pump to regulate flow if needed but never on the overflow. There is one exception when you have a dual overflow but that does not apply to you with limited space.

What is your overflow rated at? What return pump do you have and how are both plumbed, by that I mean size, length, fittings etc?

For a quick test, stick a length of airline tubing down into the standpipe a few inches so it sucks air and watch the overflow rate steady out.

 

[ReefPops]

Check valves are a disaster waiting to happen and have absolutely NO place in the aquarium hobby. It does not have to be a catastrophic failure, even one grain of sand or a flake of food will defeat a check valve! I cannot stress this enough....... Remove it immediately if not sooner!

An aquarium is not pristine drinking water, it has organics, floaties like food or algae or fish waste. All of these things can sit on a valve seat and cause a trickle which will lead to a flood, usually at night or when you are not at home according to Murphy's law. I beg you to get rid of it so you can sleep soundly at night, I beleiev many others will chime in here on this learned opinion. Its a ticking time bomb.

Raise the return so only a very small, easily calculated amount of water flows back before the siphon breaks and you have an air gap, the best form of protection known to man and 100% foolproof and maintenance free. Nothing to clean ever.

You don't have a ball or gate valve on the overflow do you? The over flow should be completely unrestricted with no valves and as few fittings as possible so it has a nice smooth laminar flow. You can install a ball valve on the dicharge side of the return pump to regulate flow if needed but never on the overflow. There is one exception when you have a dual overflow but that does not apply to you with limited space.

What is your overflow rated at? What return pump do you have and how are both plumbed, by that I mean size, length, fittings etc?

For a quick test, stick a length of airline tubing down into the standpipe a few inches so it sucks air and watch the overflow rate steady out.

Check valve removal will probably happen, or at least it won't be the only method. Like on our other tank we have one, but even if it fails the siphon will stop before there's a flood. It's a good backup to keep the tank a little fuller. On this tank I believe there might also be another safety in the plumbing in the overflow. I just know the nozzle itself is drilled on the bottom of the overflow so the nozzle is only about 6 inches about the sand. The whole tank will be empty before the nozzle itself loses suction. As for the rest I'll check with the mr later. The pump is a mag 5. No ball or gate valve. Free flowing. Like I said overall we've done this a few times. This setup is just a little stranger than the others. All you info is very helpful. Especially the check valve comments. Never thought about all the possibilities for disaster. Probably because on that other tank it is a backup.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Check valves also cut the flow rate due to head loss or the need to overcome a spring or raise a flapper, again not usually a desirable thing. Drilled holes fall into the same category as check valves. You can clean or service it this morning but whats to say a piece of floating food or algae, or a small snail or anemone or fish or whatever parks over the drilled hole or gets sucked up against it when the power goes off? Nothing defeats an air gap, it requires no maintenance and it does not require any back up or other help. Wastes of time.

Here is how I placed my returns originally :

Note how the nozzles are about 3/4" below the surface so they provide surface agitation and oxygen transfer. In my case my display is 100 gallons so 3/4" equals a maximum of 3.5 gallons which can flow back to the sump in a power outage, thats it. My sump is a 30G and operates about 2/3 full as that is where the skimmer works best so I always have at least 10 gallons of freeboard or spare room at all times and flooding is not ever a worry.

 

[ReefPops]

Thanks for sharing. Ill have to figure something out. I can't really do the same thing as my tank has a unique top where the overflow lid and tank lid are both separate at the top (as in major tank modification). We will play around later although I may be in trouble as far as safety for flooding. Assuming the check valve and hole both fail I would be screwed. I'd have to plumb my nozzle in the tank upward about 18 inches to be anywhere near the top. Guess not a good design after all.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Nope not a good design and worth correcting for your peace of mind. Photos of your display and plumbing will go a long way when it comes to others recommending changes.