heliguy71
Active Member
hi what would cause ph to drop.i read something about co2 in winter inside causeing this.i add seachem reef buffer but the ph drops in hours what the heck is going on.new prop added and calibrated.please help.
ph drop
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That's a very complex question with multiple variables affecting what the correct answer will be for you in your situation.
These articles will help.
Low pH: Causes and Cures by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
The How To Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners Part 3: pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2002/chem.htm
Jeremy
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nkelr
Active Member
read the articles they will help. yes ph will drop just from co2 buildup from you living in a closed up house all winter. if your ph isnt staying stable from doing water changes with quality salt, then adding buffer wont work either. salt water has a naturally high ph, but some salts just dont have the buffering agents to keep it high. you posted about this before and i suggested if your tank doesnt maintain a high ph, then try adding some florida crushed coral. that stuff has a better buffering ability than any other buffer on the market.
You've read too much marketing crap!! LOL!! Aragonite will only buffer your pH if it drops down to near 6.7. Aragonite dissolves at a pH around 6.5-6.7 at which point it begins to dissolve into (primarily) ca and carbonate molecules. The carbonate raises the total alk. A pH level is very much related to the alk level. If the alk level is raised then it helps maintain a higher pH. Unfortunately these sly manufacturers make their substrate sound like it will actually have an effect on your pH - IT DOESN'T unless your pH drops to around 6.7 at which point you've really done something wrong to let it get that low!! You would likely have to directly inject co2 into a tank to get it that low (a possibility but very unlikely situation when using a calcium reactor).
+1 on Brians suggestion, however, read Randy's article carefully to learn the proper procedure to this little test. A minor misunderstanding of how this test works can lead to improper experiment technique thus leaving the reef chemist with entirely unreliable results.
Jeremy
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nkelr
Active Member
ive used that stuff for african cichlids for ever now and a filter media bag full raised the ph from neutral to about 7.8 in a 150 gallon tank and it kept it there even after water changes for as long as my african tank was running.
customcolor
The coRal nuT
you could always take the air in put to the skimmer out side to pull that in to help raise the ph....if your skimmer relly sucks the air in then watch out for dropping tank temp....i normaly have one pump on outside air and the other on inside air to try to keep the ballance
Yeah, sounds possible. Chemically it is possible to begin to dissolve aragonite at levels as high as 7.7, but this is extremely minute dissolution at that value (virtually nothing). Your starting pH may have been low enough to allow sufficient media to dissolve releasing enough caco3 to raise the alk thus coincidently raising the pH a bit. On a freshwater tank the water changes you perform will often lower the pH and slightly dissolve the media a bit more thus releasing more alk (which in turn then raises the pH again). RO/DI water has a low pH around 7.0 (as well as most sources of tap water) and that addition of low pH water will help dissolve some of the media. A reef tank is a very different situation. There is about a 10 fold difference in the amount of media that is dissolved at a pH of 6.5 vs 7.8. All the hype that you see on the bags of substrate indicating they'll buffer pH to natural sea water levels as well as maintain ca, mg, sr, etc... is all just marketing hype. It's really frustrating when good marketing is so deceiving.
Oh, don't give up that easy. This hobby is a marathon not a sprint. If co2 levels are very high in your house then opening a window may not be worth the effort. Unless the tank is directly next to the open window, and there is a good amount of air flow "IN", then opening the window may do absolutely nothing. If you haven't done the outdoor water aeration test then you don't even know for sure that the problem is related to indoor co2. It is likely, but there are also dozens of other possibilities that can lower a reef tanks pH level.
As well as Dave, I utilize outside air to negate indoor co2. I run my skimmer air intake out my basement window. That's not possible in many situations but it was very effective for me.
Your alk level may well be playing a huge part in your ability to maintain proper pH values in your tank. Have you measured your alk lately??
There really are dozens of causes for a low pH, but until you find the reason for the problem, all the other attempts to fix the problem may be as useless as the seachem buffer you added.
Good luck. Keep us updated and it will help to let us know what your alk level is at.
Jeremy
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Sikryd
hmm...Sweet!
I would test you alkality, Ca and magnesium to get a baseline of these parameters, and then go from there.
They are all intercoralated and will help maintain the proper ph after you get it adjusted.
Until then, it is kind of guesswork.
They are all intercoralated and will help maintain the proper ph after you get it adjusted.
Until then, it is kind of guesswork.
OK. Having an alk of 10 dkh is a great spot for maintaining a good pH. Now you've got to rule out a few other major aspects of maintaining the pH.
Quote from the first article I posted:
Lets rule out these problems one by one. Don't worry, we'll figure out your pH issues. We've already determined your alk lvl is OK (pending the test kit you used isn't 4 yrs old).
What do you use to maintain your alk/ca??? Calcium reactor, kalk, two part, balling method, etc....??
What are the exact pH levels?? During the day and at night??
What size tank? How densly stocked?
Are you growing any macroalgea??
You said you got a new probe and calibrated it. How old was the calibration solution? Has the calibration solution been exposed to open air for any length of time (longer than opening the bottle to pour some out)?
Let's start with those questions and let the answers guide us to the next step. Keep in mind that co2 is usually the link to a low pH, but determining where the co2 comes from is important to help find the solution as opposed to putting a band-aid on the situation.
Jeremy
OP
OP
heliguy71
Active Member
tank is 120 gallon
i have been using seachem reef buffer and kent liquid calcium.but when reef buffer is added ph rises to 8.25 and drop down to 8.05 less then a hour. i have chaeto macro in my sump also.calibration formula is new and si is probe about a week to be exact.my alk test is old i think i will get a new one just to make sure that is in check.
i have been using seachem reef buffer and kent liquid calcium.but when reef buffer is added ph rises to 8.25 and drop down to 8.05 less then a hour. i have chaeto macro in my sump also.calibration formula is new and si is probe about a week to be exact.my alk test is old i think i will get a new one just to make sure that is in check.
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I'd highly recommend getting a new alk kit. I prefer ELOS, but everyone has their own preferences. I've used the IO alk kits in the past and found them relatively accurate and consistent.
How much seachem buffer do you add? Amount and frequency.
How much ca is dosed? Amount and frequency
How much chaeto do you have growing? A handful or a bucket full? How often do you prune it / thin it out??
Sounds like the pH probe and and calibration solution are reliable. Just for kicks, take some water out of the tank and monitor the pH of the water in a cup away from any electrical equipment. PH monitors are notorious for electrical interference.
What are the exact pH value trends? What does it usually run during the day and night (without taking into account how it reacts when you add the buffer)??
What's the stocking density (how much bioload)?
Approximate nitrate and po4 levels?? Do you have a lot of nuisance algea growing??
Jeremy
How much seachem buffer do you add? Amount and frequency.
How much ca is dosed? Amount and frequency
How much chaeto do you have growing? A handful or a bucket full? How often do you prune it / thin it out??
Sounds like the pH probe and and calibration solution are reliable. Just for kicks, take some water out of the tank and monitor the pH of the water in a cup away from any electrical equipment. PH monitors are notorious for electrical interference.
What are the exact pH value trends? What does it usually run during the day and night (without taking into account how it reacts when you add the buffer)??
What's the stocking density (how much bioload)?
Approximate nitrate and po4 levels?? Do you have a lot of nuisance algea growing??
Jeremy
I promise I'm not just asking a bunch of silly questions to keep you busy. Just trying to get a good idea of what the issue may be and all those questions help guide us in the right direction to fixing the problem.
Jeremy
Jeremy
I prune my chaeto routinely (at least once a week). I thin it out to about half of the volume and then pull it all apart to try to decrease the density. By pruning and thinning it out you give it a better chance to get light penetration to the deeper areas of the normally very dense chaeto. Increasing the growth of macroalgea (or any algea) will help increase your pH as it uptakes co2 and releases oxygen. Improving macrogalgea growth is a win win situation for many aspects of a reef tank, not just it's ability to uptake co2.
I do notice if I don't routinely prune and thin the chaeto then it just gets very more dense and the growth is slowed considerably. This is likely partially related to the decreased light penetration as it becomes so dense. After about 3 or 4 weeks the growth seems to become relatively stagnant in the absence of pruning.
Jeremy
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