phosphates raising.

[myles4miles]

so last week I tested my phosphates at like .59-.44 started dosing nopox 3 doses(5-6ml daily) my phosphates shot down to .17-.15 on the 3rd day. on the 4th day I dosed (4ml). on the 5th day I didn't dose, on the 6th day, I did a 15gallon water change(60gallon tank-50gallon water volume) but didnt dose aswell. on the 7th day(today) 1 day after the water change my phosphates tested at .31-.28.
Things to note.
last week I changed out my sock and filter floss for a new one.
after day 1 of dosing i got a big bacteria bloom, skimmer sucked it up in a day or two.
I run a Tunze hang-on filter and protein skimmer.
Just dosed 5ml a couple of minutes ago.

 

[Pistondog]

It takes some weeks for carbon dosing to have an effect.
And they are more likely to lower nitrates
Your phosphate numbers likely are not the result of the nopox dosing.

 

[myles4miles]

It takes some weeks for carbon dosing to have an effect.
And they are more likely to lower nitrates
Your phosphate numbers likely are not the result of the nopox dosing.

Why would they fluctuate from almost .6 to .17, in a 3 day span. i use a hanna tested bought it last week with the nopox and went through like 20 tests every time i test I test it like 2-3 times.

 

[Pistondog]

Why would they fluctuate from almost .6 to .17, in a 3 day span. i use a hanna tested bought it last week with the nopox and went through like 20 tests every time i test I test it like 2-3 times.

Sorry, cant explain your numbers.
Phosphates are bound to rock and sand. If the phosphate level in the water gets lowered, then some phosphate will leach out of the rocks.
But that does not explain your numbers.

 

[myles4miles]

dang, if anyone else could chime in that would be awsome

 

[spicymikey]

Why would they fluctuate from almost .6 to .17, in a 3 day span. i use a hanna tested bought it last week with the nopox and went through like 20 tests every time i test I test it like 2-3 times.

I agree. Something wrong with those test results. P04 is not going to move that fast. Carbon dosing can certainly accelerate uptake of NO3 and PO4 but it would be a slow move unless you dumped so much in that you spiked the heterotrophic bacteria to bloom fast. In that case it would have likely sucked all the O2 out of the water along with the organic and inorganic nutrients in the water.

Hannas Ultra low PO4 tester is excellent so question your testing procedures. You sound new to all this. Be certain

1) you are not leaving a bunch of reagent in the pouch (or spilling it on the floor) when you mix it into the 10ml cuvette.

2) make sure you are tumbling the cuvette after mixing to ensure ALL the reagent is fully disolved before starting the 3 minute timer. Don't worry about going over 3 minutes, that won't change the results, but give it all a full 3 minutes to react with the aquarium water after it disolves.

3) make sure the cuvette is clean of any smudges or stains before inserting it into the tester chamber. That can distort the optical readings

Those are the only big things that can screw you up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Test error?

What is nitrate and how is it changing?

 

[myles4miles]

I agree. Something wrong with those test results. P04 is not going to move that fast. Carbon dosing can certainly accelerate uptake of NO3 and PO4 but it would be a slow move unless you dumped so much in that you spiked the heterotrophic bacteria to bloom fast. In that case it would have likely sucked all the O2 out of the water along with the organic and inorganic nutrients in the water.

Hannas Ultra low PO4 tester is excellent so question your testing procedures. You sound new to all this. Be certain

1) you are not leaving a bunch of reagent in the pouch (or spilling it on the floor) when you mix it into the 10ml cuvette.

2) make sure you are tumbling the cuvette after mixing to ensure ALL the reagent is fully disolved before starting the 3 minute timer. Don't worry about going over 3 minutes, that won't change the results, but give it all a full 3 minutes to react with the aquarium water after it disolves.

3) make sure the cuvette is clean of any smudges or stains before inserting it into the tester chamber. That can distort the optical readings

Those are the only big things that can screw you up.

i do all of this that was my first thought was that the tester was broken so i went down to the lfs and they do free hanna tests for everything, it tested like .03 off what i was testing. i went through 25 test in a week, i was so surprised at the test results i was testing like 3 times in one sitting to make sure and they were all in a .03 range of each other, brought my water twice in the 1 weeks to fish store and they confirmed my testes where right.
not going to lie i don't test nitrates that much, its the only thing I didn't upgrade to salifer so i tests nitrates with API, it got tested by hanna at the local fish store, and it testes at 26 when my phosphates were tested at.44
i feed a eel 3 krill every other day and half a cube of mysis in the morning and at night.

REMEMBER after the first dose of 5ml i woke up to a huge bacteria bloom.

 

[myles4miles]

also the two times i went to the lfs was 4 days apart First time tested at.44 at lfs second time tested at.17

the only thing i did in between that time was blow off the cyno on the rocks, and every time I blew into a hole, white fleshy particles would come out of the rocks? Maybe that could have something to do with it.

 

[reefndude]

I find that carbon dosing isn't really effective at lowering phosphates. As someone mentioned it is likely bound in your rocks and is leaching in your water. Fish food and coral foods is a bug contributor to ppo4 as well
My opinion, using some sort of phosphate remover would be your best best. With high numbers I personally like to use products like phosphate rx, phosphate e, etc. Once numbers are in the lower ranges I will use some sort of media to control it. I like rowaphos

 

[myles4miles]

ya the guy at the fish store was very confused to, and then told me to buy nopox, i was going to buy gfo but since my nitrates where also high i was sold on the nopox

 

[myles4miles]

ps i also do weekly water changhes i never go over 7 days so
i don't know what to do

 

[reefndude]

What are your nitrates?

 

[Dom]

Why would they fluctuate from almost .6 to .17, in a 3 day span.

Understand that everything in the tank get saturated with phosphates; crushed coral substrate and rocks specifically.

When you take action to drive down your phosphates, they come back up in a few days because the phosphates in the rock leeches out into the water column.

This will continue to happen until all phosphates leech out of the rock.

What you are seeing is phosphate in the water column balancing with the phosphate in the rock.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

ps i also do weekly water changhes i never go over 7 days so
i don't know what to do

I’m not seeing you need to do anything. Just “keep calm and carry on”. :)

Don’t stress over every up and down number. None of the numbers you posted for phosphate are a big concern. The changes may just be test errors.

 

[spicymikey]

honestly this is a little hard to explain, but I agree with Randy,. Don't sweat it that much. 0.44 isn't that high that is going to start killing your coral. Would it darken the coloring? Yes. Would it possibly even slow down the growth of some of your fast growing coal like sps? Yes. Is it the end of the world? No absolutely not.
 
Those who said the phosphate molecules are going to bind with calcium in the calcium carbonate Rock are correct. And it also will also leech back out to the point of equilibrium. That's all true and also normal . But that's also not going to explain swings like what you are seeing.

We can all play 20 questions and rack our brains, but since it's not the end of the world just continue to observe and try and improve your methods and procedures with this new tank. Just make sure it doesn't get too much higher than your highest reading and enjoy

 

[spicymikey]

ya the guy at the fish store was very confused to, and then told me to buy nopox, i was going to buy gfo but since my nitrates where also high i was sold on the nopox

One other piece of advice. If you are going to carbon dose then you will need to plan on testing for both nitrates and phosphates. Nitrates are always going to be higher than your phosphates if you take care of these inorganic nutrients with water changes and or natural biological processes.

But here is the thing, if you are carbon dosing to get your phosphates down then the heterotrophic bacteria you are going to grow (Bacillus, Pseudomonas, Vibrio, et al.) will consume nitrates at a faster rate than phosphates. If you only pay attention to your phosphates, and get it down to where you want it (<0.1 PPM) then you will almost certainly drive your nitrates to zero first without even realizing it. Nitrates and phosphates are essential for life and your corals will start dying if you let either your nitrates or phosphates go to zero.

 

[myles4miles]

One other piece of advice. If you are going to carbon dose then you will need to plan on testing for both nitrates and phosphates. Nitrates are always going to be higher than your phosphates if you take care of these inorganic nutrients with water changes and or natural biological processes.

But here is the thing, if you are carbon dosing to get your phosphates down then the heterotrophic bacteria you are going to grow (Bacillus, Pseudomonas, Vibrio, et al.) will consume nitrates at a faster rate than phosphates. If you only pay attention to your phosphates, and get it down to where you want it (<0.1 PPM) then you will almost certainly drive your nitrates to zero first without even realizing it. Nitrates and phosphates are essential for life and your corals will start dying if you let either your nitrates or phosphates go to zero.

i feed a eel 3 krill every other day and feed mysis cube half in morning and half at night. in a 65g (4footlong)
can my nitrates really 0 with that

 

[clowns]

Why would they fluctuate from almost .6 to .17, in a 3 day span. i use a hanna tested bought it last week with the nopox and went through like 20 tests every time i test I test it like 2-3 times.

Just a thought. I had trouble with #'s like yours until I read and exactly followed hanna directions!!!

 

[myles4miles]

Just a thought. I had trouble with #'s like yours until I read and exactly followed hanna directions!!!

numbers where checked by lfs 2 times