Phytoplankton for control of Phophates and Nitrate in the Reef

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Hi I was a cultivator of phytoplankton years ago and I have experimented with it for the control of nitrate and phosphate and wanted to know if it is worth continuing my experimentation?

My set up was a 20G long with kenya trees and soft coral loaded to the max with coral, I was up to 1 cup a day of phyto and never had to scrap the glass and had sparkling clear water.

Is it worth more experimentation or is it a waste of time?

My main goal is to sell phytoplankton eventually and to prove that it works not only as food for coral,copepods.sponges,clams etc,dustfeathers,worms etc. But that one can achieve a very healthy flourishing diverse reef setup using it while keeping nitrate/phosphate/ammonia,chlorine, metals etc under control with sparkling clear water. It also has the effect of competing with other algaes so they will be in control

 

[McMullen]

Interesting! I guess I've never considered phytoplankton for nutrients. Quite the opposite actually!

In your experience, your adding for food but because of photosynthesis, getting nutrient uptake? Thus reduction?

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

What I think is happening is that when I add 1 cup daily to a 20G, the tons of corals,sponges copepods etc use up the phyto. Inorganics etc are being consumed as the phyto slightly grows using photosynthesis, then eventually maybe at night, the phyto is totally consumed in the long run. It's all about balance, so say you have a lightly stocked tank then it would be 1/4 cup of phyto.

 

[Frop]

Interesting.

 

[dgrigor02]

Worth investigating yes but need long term results. I can see this short term but unless there is an export going I would think at somepoint it get released again. With macro algaes and scrubbers you actually exports amounts of algae out of the system. Can and does a skimmer pull out some of the phyto for an export. or does the sponges grow large enough to use as an export. The corals themselves by way of fragging could be an export.

 

[BMW540]

Algagen's live feed program is an example of this already in action. It works VERY well

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Thanks, I got the idea long ago from aquaculture facilities on where they would use phyto I believe to grow out clams. I figured that sps kenya trees, zoas, mushroom imo consume phyto through the mouth and or through absorption like they absorb trace elements. I don't know the exact science but at the time I was reading university articles about it and that phyto is a complete nutrition for the corals except you need two species for a complete nutrition.

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Worth investigating yes but need long term results. I can see this short term but unless there is an export going I would think at somepoint it get released again. With macro algaes and scrubbers you actually exports amounts of algae out of the system. Can and does a skimmer pull out some of the phyto for an export. or does the sponges grow large enough to use as an export. The corals themselves by way of fragging could be an export.

Exactly. The experiment I will be doing next is with a 90G and sump. What I am trying to do is replace skimmers,refuges,rodi water etc

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Its all about balancing certain beneficial sponges and using coral as export. so say you have kenya tree's in your tanks, sump and you throw them out in the garbage instead of macroalgae

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Imagine we get to the point were we have colanoid/harpacticoid/phytoplankton all over are tanks and we dose phyto like we dose ca,alk etc

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Algagen's live feed program is an example of this already in action. It works VERY well

Will look into it thanks for the lead.

 

[Liquid360]

Phyto burns cleaner, lowering excess nutrients. I farm the stuff as well, a closet full of 5g buckets. As a college student it was weed, not algae [emoji4]

 

[scoopsthedog]

Phyto burns cleaner, lowering excess nutrients. I farm the stuff as well, a closet full of 5g buckets. As a college student it was weed, not algae [emoji4]

These days you'll make more money selling phyto the grass market is crashing. [emoji13]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not convinced the addition of phytoplankton causes a significant net reduction in inorganic nutrients in the water, but in any case, I'm not sure that aspect is very important for most reefers either way since there are plenty of ways to accomplish it.

If the feeding of the tank organisms is beneficial for them, that's important (IMO). That's why many folks feed phyto now, and why I use organic carbon dosing (to drive bacteria, feed organisms, and reduce nutrients).

 

[Reef Nutrition]

I am glad you brought this up Dr. Blue Thumb!

There are a lot of live microalgae suppliers that are beginning/continuing to claim that phytoplankton will reduce nitrates, phosphates, etc. in reef aquaria. To be quite frank, I don't think this is good to tell people. I have even seen people say that you can do fewer water changes if you are adding live phytoplankton daily into a reef tank; this is also not good to say for obvious reasons. We have been selling phytoplankton into aquaculture and the hobby for a long time and we have never seen anyone show us unequivocally that phytoplankton significantly reduces nitrate and phosphate, which, by the way, aren't that only things they take up. Also keep in mind, that even if they do take up significant amounts of nitrate and phosphate, you would then need to remove them from the system: what goes in must come out. Even when the algae is being consumed, not all of it is being converted to biomass which means the animals consuming it are releasing waste, which needs to be exported by normal methods.

Macroalgae is much more beneficial at reducing nitrate and phosphate in an aquarium due to its capacity for growth and its significantly larger biomass than microalgae. You can also physically cut it out to remove the biomass that has taken up the nitrogen and phosphorous. Algae scrubbers are definitely worth it, but must be used properly for them to be effective.

Phytoplankton, whether it is viable or not, is strictly a food item and that's how we deal with it. Without proof and research into the matter, telling people that it will filter their water significantly is highly misleading. We are all for people growing and selling phytoplankton into the market, but the market needs to be informed properly or you run the risk of giving algae a bad name if it doesn't live up to their expectations. For example: Let's say I told people that they can reduce water changes if they use our Phyto-Feast Live because it reduces nitrate and phosphate. They take my advice and then begin seeing their tank doing worse and worse, possibly losing animals because they weren't keeping up with proper aquarium maintenance techniques. I would be culpable and they would have every right to come after me. This will require a lot of research, but keep in mind that every tank is different and every species of algae is different, so there is no way to say "one size fits all".

I'm very happy to see this being discussed as phytoplankton is becoming more popular in the hobby.

-Chad

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

True, it is best for it to remain a food item for obvious reasons. I will use it and advertise it's ability to be used as a live food for the reef. I'm still going to cultivate it for food for copepods too.

Is there a way to cultivate phytoplankto to have no nitrate and phosphate in it? And can I drip phytoplankton like a kalk drip?

 

[Reef Nutrition]

True, it is best for it to remain a food item for obvious reasons. I will use it and advertise it's ability to be used as a live food for the reef. I'm still going to cultivate it for food for copepods too.

Is there a way to cultivate phytoplankto to have no nitrate and phosphate in it? And can I drip phytoplankton like a kalk drip?

There is no way to exclude nitrogen and phosphorous from the algae culture without compromising it. You could always allow the algae to settle, decant off the culture water top layer, then resuspend the algae in clean saltwater before you setup the dosing system; however, I do know people that drip directly out of their algae culture without issue. Adding the algae with it's culture media to an aquarium COULD result in unwanted nutrient introduction, so it's always a good idea to just keep up on routine maintenance and have the proper filtration equipment on the tank.

Chad

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

I am going to be brave and will continue my experimentation. only because it is all I know and is what I am use to in order to have a successful reef. I know there are better ways in other opinions, but i do not mind doing it this way. I get bored easy and like to push the envelope, I did fine with tanks using phyto and tap water for over 12 years.

If you are new, ignore what I say, it is only for the most advanced reefer, no disrespect to anyone. I use to use skimmers/refuges/rodi etc, not anymore thou.

I'm not saying that this method is best just that it is an option if you are on a budget and there is actually a science behind it, imo

Here is last tank inhabitant placed under similar conditions as I am attempting again:



It seems to be healthy and happy and I actually solved bacterial infection of the gut on wild species of this type of shroom it is as simple as cutting it in half and turkey baster with salt water the gut to remove the infection and to relieve the infection.

I am getting back into the game after a 3 years break and I am from Canada and I am currently setting up a display/prop tank worth over $3000. It will be a 90G with 20G sump, radion or kessil led lighting, 2"dsb,90-110 lbs live rock no refuge, no skimmer, 150 ppm tap water, no test kits beside thermometer and hydrometer. Going to stock the sump with L.R and a lot of kenya trees under 6500k lighting.

In the 90G will be nothing but softies for now such as F-Ric, Australian Yumas, Zoanthids, Palythoas and only the highest of ends.

The fish will be small bioload of small-medium yellow tang, purple tang, flame angel.

After a year I will try to prove that pytoplankton is the bomb and if used properly it can be used as cutting edge husbandry.

Don't mind me I have a lot of time on my hands and I am weird, I have adhd,schizo affective disorder and asperger. I am the most messed up reefer on the planet, lol. I currently am on disability and deliver newpapers along with depend on money from the sale of propagated coral and live phytoplankton in the past. I am hoping to upscale my small business, also use the phyto to cultivate calinoids too.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

True, it is best for it to remain a food item for obvious reasons. I will use it and advertise it's ability to be used as a live food for the reef. I'm still going to cultivate it for food for copepods too.

Is there a way to cultivate phytoplankto to have no nitrate and phosphate in it? And can I drip phytoplankton like a kalk drip?

Even if the water around the phyto was totally devoid on inorganic N and P, the phyto itself contains large amounts of N and P and once digested, some of it is released back to the water.

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Not to argue, but say for example you have phytoplankton filled water that happens to be slightly clear so the phytoplankton is in large amount but the water is still capable of allowing some photosynthesis through. This would reduce the visabiltiy and the available phytosenthesis, but would the extra nutrition fill in this gap for coral health?

Say a coral like a shroom or zoanthid was hypothetically 70% autotroph and 30% heterotroph can corals convert to being 7 0% autotroph to say 50% as long as they are being fed extra?

Through algae clade shuffling.

Asking this because I am thinking of setting up a mandarin tank instead and possibly trying to breed them if I can and I want to maximize the available phytoplankton to feed the harbacticoids.

And what about the extra coral growth and yellow/pink,white benefitial sponges and small snails and copepods that are increased by the extra phyto can these alone be in such an abundance that they will consume the Dissolved organic matter before converting to inorgnaics?

weird question? what about copepod poop would this be a great coral food?

What about corals themselves, I know they are considered animals, but is there anything in them that consume a % of P and N? I always looked at corals as mini filters that when in abundance can contribute to a reduction in P/N eventually.