Please help - what disease is this?

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WrasseyReefer

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That spot isn't velvet. It seems to be a minor mucus build-up, either from an injury, or possibly a mild Brook infection. The tips of the Gramma's pelvic fins are also a bit eroded, unsure why.

I'd say that this confirms that you have more than one issue going on; the acute fish deaths stopped with copper, so that cured something, but then, these lingering symptoms are here.

I do not see anything in the gramma video that shows me that its issue is immediately treatable. What I mean is that I've seen fish that looked similar in quarantine, and just didn't worry about it and they ended up being fine. If it worsens, then of course I would change up the treatment.

Jay
I’m seeing what looks like the same kind of white patch as the gramma on the blue damsel today on the left side near the gill. I know you said that it doesn’t look immediately treatable with the gramma, but I thought I’d share I’m seeing it on the damsel as well, just in case that means anything or looks different to you. I don’t know when these symptoms first appeared, as they hide a lot. Here’s a video of the damsel. The damsel also did this twitching behavior. It’s difficult to tell exactly what the behavior is because of the angle in the video. Maybe you can tell what’s going on better than I can. There’s also video from today of the wrasse that has looked really bad since yesterday. Breathing heavily and laying since yesterday. The wrasse has this different looking (than the gramma and damsel) white patch on the abdomen. Any thoughts?
IMG_9799.jpeg


 
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I was focused on the odd erosion of the gramma’s pelvic fins, but in looking again, I now see it has eroded pectoral fins as well. That could be a bacterial infection, it is too smooth to be from tankmate aggression (the most common cause of fin erosion).

The wrasse is unfortunately moribund, you won’t be able to save it.

The damsel could have damage from a tankmate, but it could also be damage from flukes.

Here is my problem - this thread has reached four pages. I can’t go back and read the whole thing again, so I may have covered this, but you have three possible diseases going on here. I don’t see signs of brooklynella in these later videos. I guess I would add in a Prazipro treatment at this point. With good aeration, dose it twice, 8 days apart.

Jay
 
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I was focused on the odd erosion of the gramma’s pelvic fins, but in looking again, I now see it has eroded pectoral fins as well. That could be a bacterial infection, it is too smooth to be from tankmate aggression (the most common cause of fin erosion).

The wrasse is unfortunately moribund, you won’t be able to save it.

The damsel could have damage from a tankmate, but it could also be damage from flukes.

Here is my problem - this thread has reached four pages. I can’t go back and read the whole thing again, so I may have covered this, but you have three possible diseases going on here. I don’t see signs of brooklynella in these later videos. I guess I would add in a Prazipro treatment at this point. With good aeration, dose it twice, 8 days apart.

Jay
Jay, thanks for all your responses. I understand this thread has gone on for quite a while, and I’m sure you’re busy. I appreciate all of your help here. I feel terrible every time I bother you with these questions. Just hoping to figure this out, because it doesn’t seem like an easy one.

They were all already treated with prazipro and fenbendazole. Please see treatment dates below. I can treat with prazipro again if you think flukes is still a possibility. They have also all been treated with metroplex (3x+, 48 hours apart), kanaplex (3x+, 48 hours apart, and neoplex (on second treatment, 1x/week). This is why I’m stumped. Should I try Cipro or amoxicillin instead? I’m really sorry for all the questions.

Fluke treatments thus far:
11/7: prazipro
11/10: prazipro
11/12, 11/14, 11/15, 11/16, 11/17: Still saw scratching
11/19: Moved to new sterile tank
11/19: prazipro
11/20, 11/21, 11/22: Still saw scratching
11/26: fenbendazole 95 mg/gal in DMSO (1 ml/10 mg) for 12 hours
11/27, 11/28: still saw scratching
 

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Jay, thanks for all your responses. I understand this thread has gone on for quite a while, and I’m sure you’re busy. I appreciate all of your help here. I feel terrible every time I bother you with these questions. Just hoping to figure this out, because it doesn’t seem like an easy one.

They were all already treated with prazipro and fenbendazole. Please see treatment dates below. I can treat with prazipro again if you think flukes is still a possibility. They have also all been treated with metroplex (3x+, 48 hours apart), kanaplex (3x+, 48 hours apart, and neoplex (on second treatment, 1x/week). This is why I’m stumped. Should I try Cipro or amoxicillin instead? I’m really sorry for all the questions.

Fluke treatments thus far:
11/7: prazipro
11/10: prazipro
11/12, 11/14, 11/15, 11/16, 11/17: Still saw scratching
11/19: Moved to new sterile tank
11/19: prazipro
11/20, 11/21, 11/22: Still saw scratching
11/26: fenbendazole 95 mg/gal in DMSO (1 ml/10 mg) for 12 hours
11/27, 11/28: still saw scratching

Ah, that's right, I forgot about the fenbendazole/DMSO.....

The standard dose for fenbendazole is only 2 mg/l, dosed weekly for three treatments. You dosed 12x times higher than that, (but for 12 hours).

Sorry, I was so focused on the problems with using DMSO, that I did not back-calculate your fenbendazole dose. It was too high. I think that is the crux of the issue.

Jay
 
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Ah, that's right, I forgot about the fenbendazole/DMSO.....

The standard dose for fenbendazole is only 2 mg/l, dosed weekly for three treatments. You dosed 12x times higher than that, (but for 12 hours).

Sorry, I was so focused on the problems with using DMSO, that I did not back-calculate your fenbendazole dose. It was too high. I think that is the crux of the issue.

Jay
I followed the recommendations posted by @Humblefish. The below posts recommend 2 mg/L for treating intestinal worms and 25mg/L for flukes.

“For treating intestinal worms (white stringy feces), you can dose fenbendazole into a QT at 2 mg/L (7.6 mg/gallon) once/week for 3 weeks.”

“Noga discusses using fenbendazole to treat monogeneans (flukes) in his book Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment 2nd Edition. He recommends a 12 hour bath treatment at 25 mg/L (95 mg/gallon). Heavily aerate + temp control the bath water. Fully dissolve the medication before adding fish.Fenbendazole is not easily water soluble, so I advise using either ethyl alcohol or preferably DMSO to aid with dissolving it: How To - Use DMSO to dissolve medications


Do you still think it could be flukes with the info that they were treated with prazipro 3 times then fenbendazole: prazipro -> 3 days later -> prazipro -> 9 days later-> prazipro -> 7 days later -> fenbendazole? I did not complete the second fenbendazole treatment, because they did not react well to the first and symptoms shifted to more urgent velvet, so copper safe treatment was started. Should I try a different antibiotic since metro, kana, and neoplex don’t seem to be working? I have Cipro, fish mox amoxicillin, and erythromycin on hand or could get something else.
 
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I followed the recommendations posted by @Humblefish. The below posts recommend 2 mg/L for treating intestinal worms and 25mg/L for flukes.

“For treating intestinal worms (white stringy feces), you can dose fenbendazole into a QT at 2 mg/L (7.6 mg/gallon) once/week for 3 weeks.”

“Noga discusses using fenbendazole to treat monogeneans (flukes) in his book Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment 2nd Edition. He recommends a 12 hour bath treatment at 25 mg/L (95 mg/gallon). Heavily aerate + temp control the bath water. Fully dissolve the medication before adding fish.Fenbendazole is not easily water soluble, so I advise using either ethyl alcohol or preferably DMSO to aid with dissolving it: How To - Use DMSO to dissolve medications


Do you still think it could be flukes with the info that they were treated with prazipro 3 times then fenbendazole: prazipro -> 3 days later -> prazipro -> 9 days later-> prazipro -> 7 days later -> fenbendazole? I did not complete the second fenbendazole treatment, because they did not react well to the first and symptoms shifted to more urgent velvet, so copper safe treatment was started. Should I try a different antibiotic since metro, kana, and neoplex don’t seem to be working? I have Cipro, fish mox amoxicillin, and erythromycin on hand or could get something else.

I see that Noga reference in my book, but I don't know where he got that from. Typically, drugs can either be dosed in water for constant baths, or for shorter term dips. In this case, his reference for a constant bath is what I used for fenben, but that shorter dip dose is a LOT higher than I would have expected. For most drugs, with dips, you do not go higher than about 3x the dose for a constant bath. Also, Noga does not discuss using DMSO, so that is still a wild card.

I should mention that minor scratching can also be "behavioral" and may not indicate an active disease. I've seen many cases where there is something in the water that causes fish to scratch - high levels of particulates for example. I also wonder if some fish start to scratch, and then just sort of keep doing it, I do that myself with dry skin in the winter (grin). There is also misinterpretation of scratching/flashing (I don't think this applies here) where fish will dive into the gravel, but it is actually a misdirected feeding response. I see that in some wrasses. It is all about the degree of scratching. In my work, I don't have a lot of time to observe the fish. If I see scratching as I pass by the tank, I figure it is an issue. Home aquarists have more time to observe, and they may see occasional scratching that I would not even consider.

I do not think that the issue is flukes, not after this treatment regimen.

Of the antibiotics you mentioned, I would rule out using Amoxicillin and Erythromycin. I would have thought that Kanamycin or Neomycin would have been effective if the issue was bacterial. I do not have a lot of experience with Cipro, but that would be the next choice, if you want to go with a bacterial diagnosis, IMO.


Jay
 
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I see that Noga reference in my book, but I don't know where he got that from. Typically, drugs can either be dosed in water for constant baths, or for shorter term dips. In this case, his reference for a constant bath is what I used for fenben, but that shorter dip dose is a LOT higher than I would have expected. For most drugs, with dips, you do not go higher than about 3x the dose for a constant bath. Also, Noga does not discuss using DMSO, so that is still a wild card.

I should mention that minor scratching can also be "behavioral" and may not indicate an active disease. I've seen many cases where there is something in the water that causes fish to scratch - high levels of particulates for example. I also wonder if some fish start to scratch, and then just sort of keep doing it, I do that myself with dry skin in the winter (grin). There is also misinterpretation of scratching/flashing (I don't think this applies here) where fish will dive into the gravel, but it is actually a misdirected feeding response. I see that in some wrasses. It is all about the degree of scratching. In my work, I don't have a lot of time to observe the fish. If I see scratching as I pass by the tank, I figure it is an issue. Home aquarists have more time to observe, and they may see occasional scratching that I would not even consider.

I do not think that the issue is flukes, not after this treatment regimen.

Of the antibiotics you mentioned, I would rule out using Amoxicillin and Erythromycin. I would have thought that Kanamycin or Neomycin would have been effective if the issue was bacterial. I do not have a lot of experience with Cipro, but that would be the next choice, if you want to go with a bacterial diagnosis, IMO.


Jay
I was under the impression that @Humblefish was a trusted and reliable source for safe and efficacious fish treatment information on reef2reef. I utilized DMSO and the fenbendazole at 25mg/L, because it was recommended by @Humblefish. It seems like I will need to be more cautious about where I get my fish treatment advice.
 
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I was under the impression that @Humblefish was a trusted and reliable source for safe and efficacious fish treatment information on reef2reef. I utilized DMSO and the fenbendazole at 25mg/L, because it was recommended by @Humblefish. It seems like I will need to be more cautious about where I get my fish treatment advice.

Humblefish is no longer on this site, he has his own web site now. He is just referencing Noga here. I don't agree with Noga's reference, and since Noga doesn't say where he got it from, I can't go back and check that. The dose is too high given the odd mortality events I've seen with fenbendazole and the DMSO use is questionable.

I went back to review this thread again, but you removed the videos. That means I can't use them to get a second view, or to refresh my memory of my observations.

Let's look at the issues: you've tried a variety of treatments. This latest issue started when you dosed 12x the normal fenben dose, but for half the time. Logic indicates that it should have been more along the lines of 2x the dose for half the time. Did you use just a couple drops of DMSO? The smallest amount that would dissolve the Fenben? DMSO is not acutely toxic to fish until very high doses, but it is not reef safe and not well studied in aquariums. There is also a rumor that DMSO in aquariums can carry toxins from the water, into the fish. I can't verify that one way or another.

Here is a post from a R2R member from 1/1/23:

Heads up on the Fenbendazole. I dissolved it in DMSO. When I poured it in, it precipitated like crazy. I decided to ride it out for a 12 hour bath and it killed 6 out of 8 fish, with the 7th not eating and laying on the bottom. I don't know if the precipitate clogged their gills, or they ingested a a toxic amount, but it was a $300 mistake.

I was involved in that thread, and I think in the end, I thought it was the higher dose, not the DMSO that caused the toxic event.

Jay
 
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Humblefish is no longer on this site, he has his own web site now. He is just referencing Noga here. I don't agree with Noga's reference, and since Noga doesn't say where he got it from, I can't go back and check that. The dose is too high given the odd mortality events I've seen with fenbendazole and the DMSO use is questionable.

I went back to review this thread again, but you removed the videos. That means I can't use them to get a second view, or to refresh my memory of my observations.

Let's look at the issues: you've tried a variety of treatments. This latest issue started when you dosed 12x the normal fenben dose, but for half the time. Logic indicates that it should have been more along the lines of 2x the dose for half the time. Did you use just a couple drops of DMSO? The smallest amount that would dissolve the Fenben? DMSO is not acutely toxic to fish until very high doses, but it is not reef safe and not well studied in aquariums. There is also a rumor that DMSO in aquariums can carry toxins from the water, into the fish. I can't verify that one way or another.

Here is a post from a R2R member from 1/1/23:

Heads up on the Fenbendazole. I dissolved it in DMSO. When I poured it in, it precipitated like crazy. I decided to ride it out for a 12 hour bath and it killed 6 out of 8 fish, with the 7th not eating and laying on the bottom. I don't know if the precipitate clogged their gills, or they ingested a a toxic amount, but it was a $300 mistake.

I was involved in that thread, and I think in the end, I thought it was the higher dose, not the DMSO that caused the toxic event.

Jay
Apologies for removing the videos. When you said, “Here is my problem - this thread has reached four pages. I can’t go back and read the whole thing again”, I thought they weren’t going to be viewed anymore. I can repost the old videos.

I have additional videos and photos from today. The clownfish is doing better, eating, leaving the tube more, and more active. She has some black spots on top of her head and a frayed tail fin, though.

The damsel seems to look worse. The white patch from the previous video is still there, and the fish is breathing rapidly, been hiding lately but out now and hanging out at bottom.

Copper power being monitored with Hanna checker everyday or every other day. Tested today, and it was at 2.38. Hasn’t gone below 2.0 ppm. Copper started on 12/1, so one week ago. Still dosing metro, kana, neoplex. We decided it wasn’t flukes due to prazipro and fenbendazole treatments completed previously. Ammonia badge yellow, so zero. Two wave makers pointed at surface, two airstones, hob.

One death on 12/6 since starting copper on 12/1: possum wrasse.

I have not completed any brookynella treatments, as you said you did not see any signs of brook in latest videos that were deleted and will be reposted.

I have not tried Cipro yet per our previous convo, but I can.

Mandarin has white patches near base of tail.
IMG_9837.jpeg


IMG_9834.jpeg



 

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It’s almost like each fish has its own different issue.

You’ve tried literally every treatment except formalin. I still see no evidence of brooklynella, so I would not think formalin would be useful.

Were all of these fish treated with the high dose fenbendazole?

Do you have a secondary way to test for ammonia other than the disk?

If you do try the cipro, stop the kanamycin, neomycin and metroplex and change a good portion of the water - you are in uncharted territory here in terms of mixing lots of meds at one time, and that always makes me nervous.

Jay
 
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It’s almost like each fish has its own different issue.

You’ve tried literally every treatment except formalin. I still see no evidence of brooklynella, so I would not think formalin would be useful.

Were all of these fish treated with the high dose fenbendazole?

Do you have a secondary way to test for ammonia other than the disk?

If you do try the cipro, stop the kanamycin, neomycin and metroplex and change a good portion of the water - you are in uncharted territory here in terms of mixing lots of meds at one time, and that always makes me nervous.

Jay
I posted this on the thread Tuesday, but I don’t think you saw it:

“Also, what’s your opinion on these Seachem ammonia badges? It’s still showing yellow, zero ammonia. It’s not old, as I know it says it only lasts a year, or brand new, as I know they say they have a few day break in period. I tested with API, and it reads 1.0 ppm ammonia. My understanding is that the ammonia badge only reads free ammonia, which is the one toxic to fish. While API shows total ammonia. Is this correct? I’ve added prime just to be safe. I also tested with Seachem multi test ammonia for free and total. It’s showing there is total ammonia but no free ammonia.”

Just retested ammonia with API, and it’s reading zero, maybe 0.25, in different lighting, but API is notorious for being difficult to read at low levels of ammonia. Added some turbo start to be safe.

IMG_9847.jpeg

IMG_9844.jpeg
 
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IMO - both the badge test and the API test are difficult to use to get meaningful ammonia readings from. I use the salicylate method on a Hach spectrophotometer. Aquarium Systems used to sell a salicylate test, but no longer. The Seachem ammonia test is reported to work well.

"Free ammonia" is a term that needs clarification. Free ammonia is just Nh4+ or NH3 that is freely dissolved in the water. Ammonia reacted with ammonia removers or bonded with chlorine (to form chloramines) or to copper (to form amine based copper) is not free. Seachem says, "free chlorine is the toxic form". they aren't wrong, ammonia bonded with other compounds IS less toxic. However, people confuse that term with ionized versus un-ionized ammonia. The un-ionized form (NH3) is the toxic one, and the amount of that present is usually a small percentage of the ionized, less toxic form (NH4+) The amount of un-ionized, deadly ammonia is based on pH and temperature. Higher pH and higher temperatures means more of the ammonia will be in the toxic form, that's why ammonia is so deadly to marine reef fishes.

So - to try and show how this all comes together: If you have an ammonia badge in a tank and it registers a reading, if you add Amquel or another ammonia blocking compound, the badge will now only read unreacted, free ammonia. If the pH of the tank is above around 8.0, that free ammonia is going to be toxic. If the pH of the water is below 7, that ammonia won't be toxic. The badge is also good for reading free ammonia in tanks treated with amine-copper products, where some ammonia tests falsely register the ammonia used to bond with the copper and give a "total" reading.

Side note - I don't use Prime. There are some threads here that indicate that it is not very effective at "removing" ammonia. I can't speak to that. However, according to Seachem, it DOES negatively react with Cupramine and releases toxic free copper. My fear is that it may also do that with Coppersafe or Copper Power. Wouldn't it be ironic if people who report seeing "copper toxicity" are using Prime, where I don't see the same toxicity and I don't use Prime?

Jay
 
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IMO - both the badge test and the API test are difficult to use to get meaningful ammonia readings from. I use the salicylate method on a Hach spectrophotometer. Aquarium Systems used to sell a salicylate test, but no longer. The Seachem ammonia test is reported to work well.

"Free ammonia" is a term that needs clarification. Free ammonia is just Nh4+ or NH3 that is freely dissolved in the water. Ammonia reacted with ammonia removers or bonded with chlorine (to form chloramines) or to copper (to form amine based copper) is not free. Seachem says, "free chlorine is the toxic form". they aren't wrong, ammonia bonded with other compounds IS less toxic. However, people confuse that term with ionized versus un-ionized ammonia. The un-ionized form (NH3) is the toxic one, and the amount of that present is usually a small percentage of the ionized, less toxic form (NH4+) The amount of un-ionized, deadly ammonia is based on pH and temperature. Higher pH and higher temperatures means more of the ammonia will be in the toxic form, that's why ammonia is so deadly to marine reef fishes.

So - to try and show how this all comes together: If you have an ammonia badge in a tank and it registers a reading, if you add Amquel or another ammonia blocking compound, the badge will now only read unreacted, free ammonia. If the pH of the tank is above around 8.0, that free ammonia is going to be toxic. If the pH of the water is below 7, that ammonia won't be toxic. The badge is also good for reading free ammonia in tanks treated with amine-copper products, where some ammonia tests falsely register the ammonia used to bond with the copper and give a "total" reading.

Side note - I don't use Prime. There are some threads here that indicate that it is not very effective at "removing" ammonia. I can't speak to that. However, according to Seachem, it DOES negatively react with Cupramine and releases toxic free copper. My fear is that it may also do that with Coppersafe or Copper Power. Wouldn't it be ironic if people who report seeing "copper toxicity" are using Prime, where I don't see the same toxicity and I don't use Prime?

Jay
Any chance all of this is uronema? Anthias is showing red sores on pelvic area and near death. My understanding is that formalin is the treatment. Or chloroquine phosphate. Recommendations for where I could get chloroquine phosphate? I read you said formalin won’t get rid of it internally.

Was reading another thread about uronema, and you commented in the thread, “two strikes are: open wound and rapid breathing. Did it die with its mouth open? If so, then that is a third strike and I would say 100% it is Uronema.” I’ve had some recent fish die with their mouth open. I don’t recall if it was all of them, but I definitely noticed it on some of them at least. Why do fish with uronema die with their mouth open?

I suppose none of the fish I’ve shown you have open wounds, but they have those unknown white patches that don't seem to be going away with antibiotics. Wondering if these white patches I’ve shown on the fish could be the start of uronema.

If the uronema got into my display tank with corals, I’ve read going fallow won’t eliminate it. How can I get rid of it in my reef display?
 
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Uronema is complicated. First off, here is an article I wrote about it:

Then - none of your fish have been showing classic signs of uronema, even the anthias lesion is atypical looking. Uronema can be a great mimic though, and it also is commonly mixed with bacterial infections.

There are two basic forms of uronema infections in fish: internal or external. The internal one cannot be successfully treated, although you will read people saying treat with "this or that". External Uronema is usually seen in seahorses and seadragons and can be treated with formalin or chloroquine. Don't make the common error though - of seeing a lesion on a fish and thinking it is the external form. Ironically, that is the internal form that has reached the surface of the fish, it cannot be treated at this stage, the damage has already been done.

Internal Uronema is only seen in newly acquired fish of certain species. It is not contagious. Most established reef aquariums have Uronema free living in them. Uronema is not an obligate parasite, it normally feeds on bacteria.

Jay
 
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Uronema is complicated. First off, here is an article I wrote about it:

Then - none of your fish have been showing classic signs of uronema, even the anthias lesion is atypical looking. Uronema can be a great mimic though, and it also is commonly mixed with bacterial infections.

There are two basic forms of uronema infections in fish: internal or external. The internal one cannot be successfully treated, although you will read people saying treat with "this or that". External Uronema is usually seen in seahorses and seadragons and can be treated with formalin or chloroquine. Don't make the common error though - of seeing a lesion on a fish and thinking it is the external form. Ironically, that is the internal form that has reached the surface of the fish, it cannot be treated at this stage, the damage has already been done.

Internal Uronema is only seen in newly acquired fish of certain species. It is not contagious. Most established reef aquariums have Uronema free living in them. Uronema is not an obligate parasite, it normally feeds on bacteria.

Jay
I think the anthias actually got burned by the heater when I did a water change and forgot to turn off the heater. Stupid mistake.

I have a black Molly that I acclimated from freshwater to saltwater for a qt. The molly is in a different qt tank than the tank I’ve been showing you. This black molly is in a qt tank with the new fish that infected the established fish I’ve been showing you. The black molly has some kind of white opaque blob on his right side. I tried getting as clear of a video as I could. This qt tank has received multiple prazipro treatments. No fenbendazole on this qt tank. But I’m thinking the prazipro might not have worked, as the tank was seeded with biomedia from an established tank that had received prazipro treatments. Thinking maybe the bacteria are digesting the prazipro. I put the black molly in a 5 min freshwater dip. The white opaque blob did not go away. Could this be saltwater or brackish flukes? The spots near the base of the tail and gill are just particulates floating in the water.

In addition to the prazipro stated above, this qt tank with the black molly has also been being treated with copper power at 2.25 ppm for 12 days now and has received metroplex, kanaplex, snd neoplex.

IMG_9901.jpeg
IMG_9906.jpeg
IMG_9905.jpeg


 
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Heaters won’t burn fish, the water pulls the heat away too fast.

The spot on the Molly is not a fluke, looks like a damaged scale. Being black, mollies tend to show every little ding very clearly. Is the Molly showing any other symptoms?

Jay
 
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Heaters won’t burn fish, the water pulls the heat away too fast.

The spot on the Molly is not a fluke, looks like a damaged scale. Being black, mollies tend to show every little ding very clearly. Is the Molly showing any other symptoms?

Jay
That’s a relief that it’s not a fluke. I have 4 black mollies and a few of them have shown these opaque marks before too. The molly is eating fine. I thought I might have seen a yawn today, but I guess it could’ve just been nothing. I did see my jawfish in the same tank as the molly scratch on the sand 12/9. But it could’ve been from all the meds, the velvet, or the high nitrates? That’s why I did the large water change. Made sure to dose and test with Hanna new water with copper power before adding to tank.

Most of the heater was exposed to the air as I did a large (~80%) water change and the heater was smoking and smelling like it was burning. That’s how I noticed to unplug it during the water change. The anthias would spend a lot of time perched on the heater, so the red marks on its pectoral area would match up with perching on the heater while it was exposed to the air and was burning.

The fish I’ve shown you: the blue damsel, clownfish, Royal gramma, and mandarin seem to be doing fine, eating. Besides the white marks on the damsel, Royal gramma, and mandarin still. No new deaths since the possum wrasse on 12/6, besides the anthias, which showed the red marks and died pretty much immediately after the water change/heater incident.

On day 12 of copper power.

I ordered and received nitrofurazone just in case, since the Royal gramma, damsel, and mandarin still have those white marks. Would this be a safe medication to use with the copper safe? If so, how much should I dose? Its powdered.
WholesaleKoiFarm Nitrofurazone by Wholesale Koi Farm (25 Gram) https://a.co/d/3ykKHm9
 
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Jay Hemdal

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That’s a relief that it’s not a fluke. I have 4 black mollies and a few of them have shown these opaque marks before too. The molly is eating fine. I thought I might have seen a yawn today, but I guess it could’ve just been nothing. I did see my jawfish in the same tank as the molly scratch on the sand 12/9. But it could’ve been from all the meds, the velvet, or the high nitrates? That’s why I did the large water change. Made sure to dose and test with Hanna new water with copper power before adding to tank.

Most of the heater was exposed to the air as I did a large (~80%) water change and the heater was smoking and smelling like it was burning. That’s how I noticed to unplug it during the water change. The anthias would spend a lot of time perched on the heater, so the red marks on its pectoral area would match up with perching on the heater while it was exposed to the air and was burning.

The fish I’ve shown you: the blue damsel, clownfish, Royal gramma, and mandarin seem to be doing fine, eating. Besides the white marks on the damsel, Royal gramma, and mandarin still. No new deaths since the possum wrasse on 12/6, besides the anthias, which showed the red marks and died pretty much immediately after the water change/heater incident.

On day 12 of copper power.

I ordered and received nitrofurazone just in case, since the Royal gramma, damsel, and mandarin still have those white marks. Would this be a safe medication to use with the copper safe? If so, how much should I dose? Its powdered.
WholesaleKoiFarm Nitrofurazone by Wholesale Koi Farm (25 Gram) https://a.co/d/3ykKHm9

I would not dose copper and nitrofurazone at the same time unless there are clear indications that there is a bacterial infection.

As far as how much to dose - the problem is that each product can have a different amount of excipients and binders added to the material, and that changes the dose. I would use the dose they give on the label of the product.

Jay
 
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I would not dose copper and nitrofurazone at the same time unless there are clear indications that there is a bacterial infection.

As far as how much to dose - the problem is that each product can have a different amount of excipients and binders added to the material, and that changes the dose. I would use the dose they give on the label of the product.

Jay
Would fenbendazole, 2 mg/l, dosed weekly for three treatments, be an effective treatment for flukes? My understanding is that Noga said this is an effective treatment for intestinal worms, but would it also work for flukes?

You said you don’t recommend using DMSO to dissolve it, correct? How would you recommend dissolving the powdered fenbendazole?

I saw a couple wrasses yawn in my other qt tank. They’ve been treated with prazipro, but their qt tank was seeded with biomedia from an established tank, so the concern is that the bacteria consumed the prazipro faster than it could kill flukes. I’d prefer not to move the fish to a new sterile tank to avoid stress on the fish.
 

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