Plumbing design review for 90 gallon

bitwise · Apr 7, 2021

Greetings. I'm looking for some comments on the plumbing design for my 90 gallon build. It's an older 90 gallon Elos tank (circa 2005) with a new Icecap 30 sump in a custom new stand. I checked with Elos America due to the tank age and they said I should be OK (even shared photos).

The diagram is definitely not to scale. I was thinking of going with schedule 80 fittings since they seem to be easier to find. For the PVC I was actually considering going schedule 40 to allow for more flow (but please let me know if this is a silly idea). I have an AWC system all built out schedule 80 (fittings + PVC) so it feels a little weird to go with schedule 40 pipe for the tank, unless I'm deliberately optimizing for flow rate.

A couple of things in a particular I need expert advice on:
* For the return to the sump you can see I chose to go from flexible hose to PVC immediately when entering the stand and then to make a diagonal horizontal run with 1 1/4" PVC. Keeping the return quiet is not super important to me as the tank will be in my basement, but would still like this to be optimized to be quiet.
* For the return to the tank, I'm not sure when to transition from 1" to 1/2" when working with the PVC. If I go with 1" I have a larger diameter pipe to run to the manifold and increase theoretical flow rate, but I'm not sure I need it (one of the benefits is 1/2" gate valves are cheaper). At the same time 1/2" PVC feels very tiny to me and overly restricting. Should I run it with 1" or 3/4" and then do the reduction to 1/2" right at the bottom of the stand where it meets the tubing?

So there it is. Definitely the most complex plumbing design I've had to come up with. Feel free to tear it to shreds.

Screen Shot 2021-04-07 at 9.41.32 PM.png

Brady4000 · Apr 8, 2021

bitwise said:
* For the return to the sump you can see I chose to go from flexible hose to PVC immediately when entering the stand and then to make a diagonal horizontal run with 1 1/4" PVC. Keeping the return quiet is not super important to me as the tank will be in my basement, but would still like this to be optimized to be quiet.

I have this same set up as far as the flex hose to PVC goes, doesn’t make much noise at all, and I really like it, it gives me flexibility to move the PVC pipe in and out of the way, when changing filter socks. Honestly the loud part is going to be at the end of the plumbing when it enteres the sump. You can just run the pipe below the water line to keep it as quite as possible.

I saw you have an adapter on the end, is this a screw on with a gasket? that’s what I use to take the extra length of PVC on and off when changing socks, makes it way easier.

As far as schedule 80 or 40 goes, I don’t think you’ll ever build up enough pressure to really matter.

bitwise said:
* For the return to the tank, I'm not sure when to transition from 1" to 1/2" when working with the PVC. If I go with 1" I have a larger diameter pipe to run to the manifold and increase theoretical flow rate, but I'm not sure I need it (one of the benefits is 1/2" gate valves are cheaper). At the same time 1/2" PVC feels very tiny to me and overly restricting. Should I run it with 1" or 3/4" and then do the reduction to 1/2" right at the bottom of the stand where it meets the tubing?

Whats the point of reducing the pipe on the sump to tank? To increase pressure? Why? Won’t this already get reduced at the return inside the tank? Like when it actually shoots water into the tank itself? I am running 3/4 on my 60g tall.

monkeyCmonkeyDo · Apr 8, 2021

Sch 20 even is ok for pipe imo.
Dont reduce the pipe till you have to imo. Its kinda hard for me to understand your question. Maybe circle in red on your drawing where your questioning reducing?
I will say 1/2" pipe will only.pump so much water and 1" will only do what its rated.for. the psi rating is on the sides. I dont do math sry.
E.g. it would be a waste to plumb 1" to 1/2"...u will only get what the 1/2" can handle.
D

bitwise · Apr 8, 2021

Brady4000 said:
Whats the point of reducing the pipe on the sump to tank? To increase pressure? Why? Won’t this already get reduced at the return inside the tank? Like when it actually shoots water into the tank itself? I am running 3/4 on my 60g tall.

Thanks for the comments Brady. The 1/2" bulkhead fitting for the return to the tank + the 1/2" flexible tube part is already there (presumably the stock setup from Elos).

bitwise · Apr 8, 2021

monkeyCmonkeyDo said:
Sch 20 even is ok for pipe imo.
Dont reduce the pipe till you have to imo. Its kinda hard for me to understand your question. Maybe circle in red on your drawing where your questioning reducing?
I will say 1/2" pipe will only.pump so much water and 1" will only do what its rated.for. the psi rating is on the sides. I dont do math sry.
E.g. it would be a waste to plumb 1" to 1/2"...u will only get what the 1/2" can handle.
D

Thanks for the feedback. Basically I'm asking about whether to do the reducing upstream or downstream of the manifold setup. I think I see your rationale though: if the cost for the fittings is negligible, why introduce more constraining pipe before you need to.

bitwise · Apr 8, 2021

Does anyone have any comments on the manifold design? I copied a design I found on here, but the thread x thread part on the gate valve is new. I've never done one of these before and would prefer to do it right the first time.

Brady4000 · Apr 8, 2021

Only make sure your check valve is above it. I have a gated wye on mine that’s shoots off to my U.V. then back into the sump. After setting it up I realized, I put the check valve by the pump and if I have the wye open, it will backflow my sump through the U.V.

bitwise · Apr 8, 2021

Brady4000 said:
Only make sure your check valve is above it. I have a gated wye on mine that’s shoots off to my U.V. then back into the sump. After setting it up I realized, I put the check valve by the pump and if I have the wye open, it will backflow my sump through the U.V.

I had never heard of a wye until you just brought it up.

I wasn't planning on using a check valve. Is this a must? Sounds like I should have it downstream of the manifold (i.e. between the manifold and the return to the tank, on the right side of the diagram).

Does this also prevent backflow if I turn the pump off to feed? Sounds nice to have for that too. My current red sea backflows and it's pretty annoying.

monkeyCmonkeyDo · Apr 8, 2021

Yes you can add a check valve. If you use 1. I like the clear toilet flap style 1s.
Most people just make sure the sump can handle the backflow.
Keep the manifold 1".
Sounds like u got this.
D

Brady4000 · Apr 8, 2021

bitwise said:
I had never heard of a wye until you just brought it up.

I wasn't planning on using a check valve. Is this a must? Sounds like I should have it downstream of the manifold (i.e. between the manifold and the return to the tank, on the right side of the diagram).

Does this also prevent backflow if I turn the pump off to feed? Sounds nice to have for that too. My current red sea backflows and it's pretty annoying.

If you put a check valve, then you will not get backflow into the sump from the “pump” side. I would put this really anywhere above your T, I guess, thought it was a gated wye so you can shut it off.

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Wye Check Valve

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If you have a long stem on the pump side into the tank (return jet.). Your tank will drain until the water is lower than the return jet. A check valve will prevent this. The only water that will flow back into your tank is from the overflow like it should.

bitwise · Apr 8, 2021

Thanks for your help @monkeyCmonkeyDo and @Brady4000!

That wasn't cheap, but I ordered about 98% of what I need. I figured I could get it all at one shop or bargain shop, but I'd probably end up spending a bunch of time gathering what I needed.

I ended up getting the check valve and will have a manifold with two accessory lines (using 1" spears thread x thread gate valves). It will end up being very similar to the original design. I'll try to post pics in a couple of weeks.

bitwise · Apr 21, 2021

So I'm going to have to modify the design a bit because I don't have enough vertical room in the stand to do everything as planned (the check valve is ~6 inches in height!).

For the return to the tank, do you guys foresee any issues with running a T-fitting off that line and then running the two gate valves one after another on the pipe that comes out of the T-fitting? Or should I use a wye fitting for this? I would put a cap on the end of that pipe. I haven't seen someone's plumbing done like this so I'm wondering if it's reasonable to do it like this.

Brady4000 · Apr 21, 2021

bitwise said:
So I'm going to have to modify the design a bit because I don't have enough vertical room in the stand to do everything as planned (the check valve is ~6 inches in height!).

For the return to the tank, do you guys foresee any issues with running a T-fitting off that line and then running the two gate valves one after another on the pipe that comes out of the T-fitting? Or should I use a wye fitting for this? I would put a cap on the end of that pipe. I haven't seen someone's plumbing done like this so I'm wondering if it's reasonable to do it like this.

That’s what I did, just make sure your check valve is above your whole setup. If you put it below, it will backfill through the other shutoff. Mine is going to my UV light, the other side is the intake to the DT. The UV pushes back into my sump.

I messed up and put a check valve below this whole set up, then realized the water back flows from the DT to my UV and into my sump by passing the check valve.

It’s the same thing as a gated wye, just made bigger to fit my setup. Still a gated wye just larger lol.

This what your thinking?

Edit: don’t judge me for my salt creep lol